I've made 3 soaps using beer as a water replacement. All were different recipes. Today, I made one with 70% olive oil and it went to trace almost immediately, which surprised me with that much OO. So, I did a little search on here and noticed warnings to use flat beer and boil off the alcohol, but not why. I did neither on any of the batches, and other than the one quick trace, there were no problems that I could tell. Why no alcohol and why flat beer only?
Beer Soap Questions
- Thread starter McSpin
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Alcohol and carbonation can cause a lye volcano. You were lucky not to have any issues, I didn't get all the alcohol cooked out once and it made the lye solution boil up and over my container. It can also cause seize or accelerated trace.
You know how the lye solution and the fats don't want to mix together at all in your soap pot when you first start to make soap? And when you get to trace, then they do start to mix together pretty well and really get to saponifying and generating heat?
Trace is the point at which there is enough newly made soap to permanently emulsify (mix) the fat and water layers together. Before trace, you can keep these layers all mixed ... as long as you're willing to keep stirring. If you aren't at trace and you stop stirring, the fat and water will separate back out.
Any alcohol -- ethanol, glycerin, etc. -- greatly increases the miscibility (mix-ability) of the ingredients in your soap batter. even before the batter gets to the trace stage. This can jump start the saponification process and generate a lot of heat. This fast rise in temperature can turn some of the water into steam and trigger a volcano or at least overheating.
This happens when liquid soapers use glycerin to dissolve their lye rather than water. Their soap saponifies incredibly quickly -- glycerin is an alcohol and helps the lye solution and fats mix together better.
Trace is the point at which there is enough newly made soap to permanently emulsify (mix) the fat and water layers together. Before trace, you can keep these layers all mixed ... as long as you're willing to keep stirring. If you aren't at trace and you stop stirring, the fat and water will separate back out.
Any alcohol -- ethanol, glycerin, etc. -- greatly increases the miscibility (mix-ability) of the ingredients in your soap batter. even before the batter gets to the trace stage. This can jump start the saponification process and generate a lot of heat. This fast rise in temperature can turn some of the water into steam and trigger a volcano or at least overheating.
This happens when liquid soapers use glycerin to dissolve their lye rather than water. Their soap saponifies incredibly quickly -- glycerin is an alcohol and helps the lye solution and fats mix together better.
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Good to know. So, it sounds like alcohol acts a lot like sugar in regards to generating heat. I'm guessing my procedure of using cold beer and a slow rate of adding the lye has kept my beer mixes from having any trouble. I see lots of youtube videos where the lye is poured into the water within a second or two. I can see where that would not be a good idea. I always start out with very cold beer and pour a little, stir, pour a little, stir, ...
I noticed that the mold was warmer than normal. I haven't tried to gel my soaps on purpose. I don't insulate the mold. Will the beer more likely cause a gel?
I noticed that the mold was warmer than normal. I haven't tried to gel my soaps on purpose. I don't insulate the mold. Will the beer more likely cause a gel?
gemsupthepoley
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Beer in soap is my next thing to attempt. Following with interest.
I think I get the picture adding the lye slowly, maybe with the glass container in a sink of cold water, and taking about 5 mins to add all the lye.
I think I get the picture adding the lye slowly, maybe with the glass container in a sink of cold water, and taking about 5 mins to add all the lye.
Please do not use glass for mixing lye. It can weaken over time and then shatter with heat and/or impact, sending hot lye solution and glass every which way. Please use plastic (number 5 should be okay) or stainless steel.
Regarding beer, I would still cool it down to the point of being mushy before adding the lye. Anything stronger than beer would get cooked a little to reduce it
kchaystack
Supporting Member
Never mix lye in a glass container. The glass most of us can buy today can not withstand thermal shock, and you run the risk of it shattering.
Use a stainless steel pitcher or plastic with a 2 our a 5 in the recycle symbol.
Use a stainless steel pitcher or plastic with a 2 our a 5 in the recycle symbol.
gemsupthepoley
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Many thanks. I'll sort that out for the next batch 8)
"...Will the beer more likely cause a gel? ..."
Yes, that's certainly a possibility. I don't cover or insulate. If it gels, so be it, but I don't want it to overheat.
Yes, that's certainly a possibility. I don't cover or insulate. If it gels, so be it, but I don't want it to overheat.
Bit of an update. I was hoping to see if it gelled, but I can't get it out of the mold. I used a foot-long 2" PVC pipe, which is what I use for my test batches. The 70% OO mix must be too soft. After 3 days drying and then 12 hours in the freezer, it won't budge. Using the freezer has eliminated the need for a liner in the PVC on my other recipes. Any ideas on how long this may have to dry before trying the freezer again? I'm wondering if the middle will stay too soft for so long that I have to dig it out.
