Be Careful

[Relle]

I was just over at Soapcalc printing off a recipe when I looked at their NEW soap videos. They had someone adding the lye into the water in a Pyrex jug. The lye into the water is fine, but please be aware that the pyrex jug could shatter, its better to use plastic or S/S.

 

[sudbubblez]

I'll never stop using pyrex because I can make my own decisions nor will I criticize someone else for their decisions. We don't know if this was american or european or very old pyrex. The old formula and current European formula borosilicate glass does not shatter, rather it just cracks and it is not etched by lye. The thermal shock is not even as bad as taking pyrex dish out of the oven and setting it on the counter. How many people are using their pyrex to bake, then putting the hot dish on the counter? That is more dangerous than mixing lye.

 

[Genny]

I don't think that Relle was criticizing anyone. She said that the pyrex "could" shatter. Which is absolutely true if a person who's not aware of the problems with lye and new pyrex decide to use a new pyrex measuring dish.
If a person that knows about the potential problems wants to keep using it, then fine. But there are so many people out there that do not know there could be a disasterous problem.

 

[Hazel]

I'll never stop using pyrex because I can make my own decisions nor will I criticize someone else for their decisions.

It's fine if you want to use Pyrex, but please respect SMF's guidelines and the decision of this forum to promote safety in soap making. You don't know what people have at home. What if someone doesn't have Pyrex and thinks she can use a regular glass measuring cup? Also, Pyrex can shatter. I know three soapmakers in the past mentioned they had Pyrex shatter while they were using it. Fortunately, none of them were injured.

@Relle -

Thank you very much for bringing up this important topic because it's obviously not been said enough on this forum.


It's recommended to use either stainless steel or PP #5 plastic for mixing lye. HDPE #2 can be used but it's not as heat resistant as PP #5.

 

[IrishLass]

and it is not etched by lye.

Can you site a source for that? The information that I have from the National Association of Corrosion Engineers says differently.


IrishLass

 

[FOhoarder]

Why wouldn't you just take that extra precaution and use a safe container? I just dont get it. :shock:

 

[Genny]

Since we're talking about glass & chemical reactions and such. I'd just like to add another glass warning for Bath & Body stuff.

This warning is for people that make bath salts that contain baking soda and package them in glass containers. Baking soda + Citric acid + moisture = Endothermic Chemical reaction, which forms Carbon Dioxide Gas. If there's no where for that gas to go, the container explodes.

When I mention citric acid, I also mean citrus eo's & fo's.

 

[Genny]

Why wouldn't you just take that extra precaution and use a safe container? I just dont get it. :shock:

Where's the like button when you need it?

 

[ToniD]

Since we're talking about glass & chemical reactions and such. I'd just like to add another glass warning for Bath & Body stuff.

This warning is for people that make bath salts that contain baking soda and package them in glass containers. Baking soda + Citric acid + moisture = Endothermic Chemical reaction, which forms Carbon Dioxide Gas. If there's no where for that gas to go, the container explodes.

When I mention citric acid, I also mean citrus eo's & fo's.

I don't do bath salts, so maybe this is obviouse to those that do.....but what are safe containers to use? Seems like if the gas is causing enough pressure to make glass break, then it could rip open plastic as well.

 

[Lindy]

Since we're talking about glass & chemical reactions and such. I'd just like to add another glass warning for Bath & Body stuff.

This warning is for people that make bath salts that contain baking soda and package them in glass containers. Baking soda + Citric acid + moisture = Endothermic Chemical reaction, which forms Carbon Dioxide Gas. If there's no where for that gas to go, the container explodes.

When I mention citric acid, I also mean citrus eo's & fo's.

I did not know that! Thank you.....

 

[citymouse]

I had what i thought were real pyrex containers but they began etching after a short time of using them. Thanks to posts like this i was able to see that it was a potential problem and switched to plastic. Last week while using my trusty little plastic container (the thin plastic ones used for painting) it literally sprung a leak and my lye mixture drained out of the container. I mix my lye/water in a container which always sits in my kitchen sink so nothing major happened but after that happened i switched over to an SS bowl and will be using that from now on.

The scary part about this story is that i was in a hurry and *almost* decided to go against my own safety precaution of mixing in the sink, it would have been a disaster. I am thankful for those who take the few minutes that are necessary to post reminders like this.

e

 

[Hazel]

I don't do bath salts, so maybe this is obviouse to those that do.....but what are safe containers to use? Seems like if the gas is causing enough pressure to make glass break, then it could rip open plastic as well.

Plastic may rip but it's not going to shatter like glass. I've only used plastic tubes for bath salts and I think the tubes had a tiny hole in the bases. But I don't have much experience with bath salts. Hopefully, someone else can give you an answer about jars.

@citymouse

Thanks for the cautionary tale. We all need reminders every now and again.

 

[Relle]

Since we're talking about glass & chemical reactions and such. I'd just like to add another glass warning for Bath & Body stuff.

This warning is for people that make bath salts that contain baking soda and package them in glass containers. Baking soda + Citric acid + moisture = Endothermic Chemical reaction, which forms Carbon Dioxide Gas. If there's no where for that gas to go, the container explodes.

When I mention citric acid, I also mean citrus eo's & fo's.

Thanks for the info , I'll write this down for later on, I wouldn't have known.

 

[Seventeen Soaps]

Since we're talking about glass & chemical reactions and such. I'd just like to add another glass warning for Bath & Body stuff.

This warning is for people that make bath salts that contain baking soda and package them in glass containers. Baking soda + Citric acid + moisture = Endothermic Chemical reaction, which forms Carbon Dioxide Gas. If there's no where for that gas to go, the container explodes.

When I mention citric acid, I also mean citrus eo's & fo's.

I did a bit of research about this and it seems that this will only happen if liquid is added to the mixture and than sealed... but something to think about none the less.

 

[Genny]

Yep, the baking soda & citric acid does need liquid, but if you're using baking soda & a citrus eo then you've got liquid. Or if you decide to use dead sea salts, that will draw in moisture from the air every time you open the container.

 

[sudbubblez]

Also, Pyrex can shatter. I know three soapmakers in the past mentioned they had Pyrex shatter while they were using it. Fortunately, none of them were injured.

You heard this from the same sensless people who will pull 350*+ glass baking dish out of the oven and place it directly on the counter. I'd bet money their experience with shattering pyrex is from abusing baking dishes, not mixing NaOH in a measuring cup.


Sodium hydroxide has to be molten to etch the good pyrex. Its rating for reacting with Sodium Hydroxide is "possible" not that it is guaranteed. Yes the surface etches, but it does not etch when used in the manner that soapmakers use it... not even close. boroscillicate glass is the same glass used by chemists... unless they are *melting* lye crystals. The etching doesn't even make it shatter, just contaminates the sample.

 

[KD]

I have a four-cup pyrex measuring cup that has become VERY etched by lye. I do use glass sometimes, depending on batch size. I can see no really good reason for this to have turned into such a debate. It did start, after all, with just a friendly warning to be careful.

 

[Hazel]

Also, Pyrex can shatter. I know three soapmakers in the past mentioned they had Pyrex shatter while they were using it. Fortunately, none of them were injured.

You heard this from the same sensless people who will pull 350*+ glass baking dish out of the oven and place it directly on the counter. I'd bet money their experience with shattering pyrex is from abusing baking dishes, not mixing NaOH in a measuring cup.


Sodium hydroxide has to be molten to etch the good pyrex. Its rating for reacting with Sodium Hydroxide is "possible" not that it is guaranteed. Yes the surface etches, but it does not etch when used in the manner that soapmakers use it... not even close. boroscillicate glass is the same glass used by chemists... unless they are *melting* lye crystals. The etching doesn't even make it shatter, just contaminates the sample.

"Molten" as in liquified? So, soapmakers don't have to worry about *melting* lye crystals? Gosh! That means everyone is safe since soapmakers only dissolve lye crystals in liquids. Thanks so much for correcting our ignorance!

FYI, I heard this from long time soapmakers who have proven to me in discussions and comments they are actually intelligent and sensible people. They all stated they were mixing NaOH in Pyrex measuring cups when the cups shattered. You lose the bet - I accept payment through PayPal.

To repeat - It is recommended to use either stainless steel or PP #5 plastic for mixing lye. HDPE #2 can be used but it's not as heat resistant as PP #5.

If people prefer to be senseless (i.e. idiots about using Pyrex after being cautioned about the possibility of it shattering) then it is their decision. Obviously they can think for themselves and aren't interested in learning from long time members and more experienced people since they already know it all. For these type of people who ignore common sense and promote potentially hazardous advice, I recommend reading about this forum's opinion of their behavior here.

@KD

Thank you for your sensible comment. I don't know why this has turned into a debate. Safety isn't a debatable issue.

Finally, I'm tired and annoyed by people attacking moderators about being safety conscious. People who are critical of the moderators' decisions to prevent the possibility of injury while using a caustic ingredient may find another forum more conducive to their soapmaking methods.

 

[sudbubblez]

[quote="Hazel]"Molten" as in liquified? So, soapmakers don't have to worry about *melting* lye crystals? Gosh! That means everyone is safe since soapmakers only dissolve lye crystals in liquids. Thanks so much for correcting our ignorance!
[/quote]
Maybe you should look up the definition of molten. Heating a solid untill it melts. NaOH doesn't melt until its heated to over 600 degrees F. Dissolving a solid in water and creating a solution is not the same thing as molten. :roll:

 

[Hazel]

Yeah, sarcasm doesn't come over well in writing.

Maybe you should look up the definition of "Internet Troll".