Bastile comedogenic or not?

[Tara_H]

Oh wow... I was curious about the huge discrepancy so I went to take a look - and I got sucked into the insanity of the labels. I had no idea.

https://www.straightdope.com/21342071/why-the-weird-religious-ravings-on-dr-bronner-s-soap

 

[violets2217]

Is this date worth a dispute? It should be easy for either of you to avoid a harsh tone by citing proper sources.

I wasn’t trying to be harsh and only very interested & curious in the soap company itself. And the quote was from the company’s website home page…. So no not worth the dispute… my bad.

 

[violets2217]

using a washcloth, soft brush or sponge
and keeping the soap out of standing water
helps stop the creation of olive soap gel

my skin gets dry with olive oil based soaps
so as much as i want to use olive oil in my soap
i use other oils in soap recipes for my combination skin

My latest liquid soap I use for dishes is 90% CO and 10% red Palm just for color. But it’s the best soap ever! Cleans everything well & my hands are so soft after! But for my bars, my skin just loves the high content lard.. also use CO and OO at 20%….still clean and breakout free, but also soft and healthy. Love it!

 

[Albertina]

Yes, you said it - the nature of each oil is changed by saponification. For instance, CO is often used as a moisturizer for skin and hair, but once saponified, it is a very cleansing oil that can make for very dry skin. Similarly, olive oil is greasy and comedogenic before saponification, but not so after.

"True" Castile was traditionally 100% OO. But there was a lawsuit some time ago wherein soapmakers won the right to call their soap "Castile" as long as it was 100% vegan. Many soapmakers would call that a Bastile, but non-soapmakers wouldn't know the difference.

In Dr. Bronner's soap, coconut oil is the first ingredient, with olive oil second, and then a few other soaping oils and essential oils, depending on which version you are buying. Most people find Dr. B's pretty drying unless it is significantly diluted, but I haven't heard of anyone say that it was comedogenic for them.

Thank you for the exhaustive explanation!!

 

[AliOop]

Many of y'all need to look at a Dr. Bronner's label again. Was founded in 1858. Not the 1960s. Doesn't say pure dr bronners Castile, but pure-castile soap in the largest letters on the label. For ingredients. Coconut oil is first. 2nd ingredient is palm oil. Then water. Then Olive oil. So it's not 2nd. Then the fragrance oil unless unscented baby, uh which gets 2nd dose of olive oil. Hemp oil. Jojoba oil. Sea salt. Citric acid. Lastly Tocopherol (vitamin e good for anti-aging and uv protection) I'm still using the stuff until I can hopefully learn here to make any better. But for under $4 for a 5oz bar, that's a challenge I may never accomplish.

The ingredient list I typed came right off the bottle of Dr. B's sitting on my shelf (which is admittedly close to ten years old, since I mostly make my own LS now). And Dr. B's does make several different versions (unscented, lavender, hemp, etc.), so you can't assume what you have on your shelf will have the same ingredients as the bottle on someone else's shelf.

 

[Garden Gives Me Joy]

@Garden Gives Me Joy - [...] Correction: I have to apologize. I thought it was a bar recipe! I didn't realize until now that you are making liquid soap. There are 2 corrections to make. For clear LS use 0%SF and for the KOH solution, choose the water : lye ratio and type in 3:1 -- like this:
[...]
Oh my. I just looked at it again. It shows you are making a small batch -- too small! That can't be correct, is it?!!

In any case, I just posted a thread with a video to make a Dr. Bronner's Copycat Recipe that I think is pretty cool. Even though I make my own version of Dr. B's castile, I'm going to try that one -- just for fun!

ETA: 9/30/21 Edited link to take you to the correct thread.

Apologies, the KOH is the entry error. Since I store my my recipes otherwise, I need to re-type recipes if I want to share it with the forum. I forgot to change old settings from fiddling with random ideas. I really meant NaOH for bar soaps.

Thanks for the link. Very interesting!

If CO-heavy soap can be called 'Castile' because it is vegan, then is it possible for syndet makers to name a product 'Castile', once it is vegan and has olive oil along with the usual coconut-oil dervatives as surfactants?

 

[Zany_in_CO]

If CO-heavy soap can be called 'Castile' because it is vegan, then is it possible for syndet makers to name a product 'Castile', once it is vegan and has olive oil along with the usual coconut-oil dervatives as surfactants?

My understanding is that they can call it anything they want except "soap". A "syndet" by definition is a synthetic/detergent.

FDA - FAQ about Soap

 

[earlene]

If CO-heavy soap can be called 'Castile' because it is vegan, then is it possible for syndet makers to name a product 'Castile', once it is vegan and has olive oil along with the usual coconut-oil dervatives as surfactants?

My understanding is that they can call it anything they want except "soap". A "syndet" by definition is a synthetic/detergent.

The short answer is 'Yes' even though it is not true soap, as per this quote directly from the FDA website:

If the product contains synthetic detergents, it’s a cosmetic, not a soap. You still can use the word “soap” on the label.

link: Frequently Asked Questions on Soap

See #2 under What’s the regulatory definition of soap?

 

[Zany_in_CO]

"If the product contains synthetic detergents, it’s a cosmetic, not a soap. You still can use the word “soap” on the label."

Oh my, that's a new one on me! Thanks for the catch, @earlene .
But the OP's question still remains. Can the syndet soap be called "Castile"?

 

[earlene]

Oh my, that's a new one on me! Thanks for the catch, @earlene .
But the OP's question still remains. Can the syndet soap be called "Castile"?

I don't see why not, afterall, the lawsuit that resulted in the decision that allowed non-traditional Castiles in the US to be called Castile really has nothing to do with what the FDA has to say about it or not. For one thing, it was a the FTC involved in that case, not the FDA. But that is neither here nor there. What the decision boiled down to was that based on 'common use' or commonly accepted terminology by manufacturers and accepted by the public, any ingredients in soap qualified a soap to be called Castile (in the US). And since syndets can be called soap due to commonly accepted by the public, why then could they not be called soap, particularly since a syndet labeled as soap is not 'misbranded', then labeling it also as Castile would not be misbranding either.

Reference: James S. Kirk & Co. v. Federal Trade Commission, 59 F.2d 179 (7th Cir. 1932)


(Just because I say, "I don't see why not" does not mean I think it's right. It only means that I recognize the legal precedent that supports that logic.)