are fragrances just hideously expensive?

[Kcryss]

Do you personally buy from them? If so, how do you like them? I considered that company but I got concerned with how many negative reviews they had on ebay and that they have no purity testing. Some of their prices seem way too low to me.

I've been using them for several years and have not had any trouble with what I've purchased and no concerns about "watered down" or weak EO's. I haven't checked the reviews on Ebay.

 

[GuacamoleSalad]

Also, it does not always seem as if "stickers" are necessarily more expensive, or from more expensive companies. Eg, a couple of well-behaved stickers (Pink Grapefruit and RE's Bamboo Sugarcane) that I use religiously from WSP - a company which I think of being on the expensive end of the scale - are relatively inexpensive. Similarly, another well-behaved sticker I use all the the time is Cucumber Wasabi Cilantro, an inexpensive one from Natures's Garden, a company with (by and large) cheaper FOs.

These and the rest of your comment are wonderful details, @not_ally . I really appreciate them. What I want to end up with eventually is a list of fairly simple fragrances that stick in cold process soap-- @Mobjack Bay 's links are going to be helpful too I think.

Some of the scents I know I want are:
* litsea
* orange, if there is one that sticks
* other citrus, if orange doesn't stick
* rosemary
* ginger (which is absolutely bonkers expensive but I still want to have it for my fanciest moments)
* cedarwood
* something floral that isn't lavender
* fir, pine, spruce, something in that family
* salt or ozone or petrichor

I don't know if it's a peculiarity of my nose or what but I haven't enjoyed a lot of fragrance blends so far. I like scents I can identify, from a garden or a kitchen or some experience, rather than scents that have a lot of different notes in them. But most soapers use blends and I'm starting to understand, I think, that blends stick better than single notes ... is that right?

 

[Mobjack Bay]

@not_ally Have you seen Math Ace’s thread from a couple of years ago on FOs that last at least six months?

Crowd sourced!

https://www.soapmakingforum.com/thr...nce-suggestions-for-cp-soap.75683/post-926396

 

[dibbles]

Do you personally buy from them? If so, how do you like them? I considered that company but I got concerned with how many negative reviews they had on ebay and that they have no purity testing. Some of their prices seem way too low to me.

I did not have a good experience the one time I ordered from them, and I know others have had problems as well. My issues happened during covid, which I understand caused a lot of vendors problems. What irked me the most was how unresponsive they were. I haven't used them since, so I don't know if things have improved or not. I know others had bad experiences as well. I will say, once I finally received my EOs, the quality was fine, but I know others have had a negative experience with quality as well. If you want to read my post about this:
https://www.soapmakingforum.com/threads/sun-pure-botanicals-not-a-happy-camper.78902/

 

[Relle]

ETA: Unfortunately, most of the threads/reviews are limited to US companies because (I think) most of the posters here are from the US.

Not all members that are from other countries, post, but they do read the threads.

 

[BritS]

For US members, I find that most of the fragrances I have purchased from Candle Science stick well at a 3% usage rate. I don’t tend to use above that. The only company I did was Scent Memory, and I stopped because it was too costly.

From Candle Science, the only one I couldn’t get to stick well was Black Currant and Jasmine. It was super faint. Otherwise, they’ve worked wonderfully.

 

[Mobjack Bay]

Some of the scents I know I want are:
* litsea
* orange, if there is one that sticks
* other citrus, if orange doesn't stick
* rosemary
* ginger (which is absolutely bonkers expensive but I still want to have it for my fanciest moments)
* cedarwood
* something floral that isn't lavender
* fir, pine, spruce, something in that family
* salt or ozone or petrichor

I don't know if it's a peculiarity of my nose or what but I haven't enjoyed a lot of fragrance blends so far. I like scents I can identify, from a garden or a kitchen or some experience, rather than scents that have a lot of different notes in them. But most soapers use blends and I'm starting to understand, I think, that blends stick better than single notes ... is that right?

Some of the scents I know I want are: (my comments for EOs)
* litsea - sticks, but the latest IFRA brings the usage rate way down on this one and lemongrass.
* orange, if there is one that sticks - use folded (10x available from Brambleberry), but don't expect it to stick well on it's own
* other citrus, if orange doesn't stick
* rosemary
* ginger (which is absolutely bonkers expensive but I still want to have it for my fanciest moments)
* cedarwood
* something floral that isn't lavender - palmarosa, geranium and ylang ylang III have price points within reach. Each can be overwhelming on their own, so best in blends
* fir, pine, spruce, something in that family - pine is a bit like turpentine, fir smells more like a forest to me
* salt or ozone or petrichor

Blends work well for EOs because 1) you can add notes of EOs (or resins) that are too expensive or too strong to use on their own - for example, the spices (cinnamon, clove, pepper, anise) and some of the florals (esp. Ylang Ylang and geranium; 2) adding base notes helps to "anchor" the more flighty EOs. In perfumery, the base notes strongly influence the way different fragrance chemicals in a blend moves across the interface between the perfume and the head space in the bottle. I've never been able to find it written out clearly for soap, but I suspect that the same thing happens with EO scented soaps when they are stored in a closed container (after they cure).

 

[GuacamoleSalad]

Blends work well for EOs because 1) you can add notes of EOs (or resins) that are too expensive or too strong to use on their own - for example, the spices (cinnamon, clove, pepper, anise) and some of the florals (esp. Ylang Ylang and geranium; 2) adding base notes helps to "anchor" the more flighty EOs. In perfumery, the base notes strongly influence the way different fragrance chemicals in a blend moves across the interface between the perfume and the head space in the bottle. I've never been able to find it written out clearly for soap, but I suspect that the same thing happens with EO scented soaps when they are stored in a closed container (after they cure).

Thank you, @Mobjack Bay - could you say a little more about resins? How would I learn about what resins are/ how to use them? Also, is there an easy way to know whether something would make a good base note vs. top/other note?

 

[Mobjack Bay]

@GuacamoleSalad - here are some links to get you started.

https://www.modernsoapmaking.com/blog/using-essential-oils-in-soapmaking
https://thenerdyfarmwife.com/essential-oils-for-soapmaking-chart/ (the downloadable chart has a notes column)

 

[akseattle]

@GuacamoleSalad , right now WholesaleSuppliesPlus has 36 fragrances on closeout. Most are from MakeYourOwn.Buzz which I understand they have bought up. They are 60% off, so these fragrances are an incredible price right now - between $10-$15.00, most of them. I ordered many, many (too embarassed to say how many). WSP doesn't have very much information about them. I looked on the MakeYourOwn.Buzz website for reviews and ordered based on MYOB's reviews (Although there weren't alot of reviews, and even fewer for CP soapmaking.) I just got them yesterday and I opened and smelled every bottle. There were only 2 that I could have passed on. I don't know how they will behave in cold process soap, and I don't know if the fragrance will stick. But, this is a hobby for me. Since I give away all my soap, as long as they don't smell bad, I'll think my friends and family will still enjoy the soap. In regards to WSP, the fragrances they sell by Just Scent and Rustic Ecsentuals come in plastic bottles. That really bothers me. All the fragrances I got from WSP by MakeYourOwn.Buzz came in dark glass, so I feel like at least they are trying....
WSP has free shipping if you spend $25.00. So, that's a pretty good deal. It can be a little hard to find them. If you think you want to look at them, on April 25, I posted on the shopping recommendations forum about how to access them to put them in your cart.

 

[VikingChick]

These and the rest of your comment are wonderful details, @not_ally . I really appreciate them. What I want to end up with eventually is a list of fairly simple fragrances that stick in cold process soap-- @Mobjack Bay 's links are going to be helpful too I think.

Some of the scents I know I want are:
* litsea
* orange, if there is one that sticks
* other citrus, if orange doesn't stick
* rosemary
* ginger (which is absolutely bonkers expensive but I still want to have it for my fanciest moments)
* cedarwood
* something floral that isn't lavender
* fir, pine, spruce, something in that family
* salt or ozone or petrichor

I have a bottle of 5x orange EO from Bulk Apothecary that sticks well for me. I blend it with patchouli and ylang ylang (middle/base notes), and soak that blend with some kaolin clay for about an hour prior to making soap with it. I don’t know where it fits within your price range, but here’s the link.

 

[KiwiMoose]

Patchouli EO sticks for ever and ever.
Litsea EO sticks.
Blood orange FO is a good alternative to EO, it sticks way better. (I get mine from Candle Science)
Rosemary EO is very strong and sticks.

Make sure you read the other buyers reviews. They will soon tell you whether it sticks or not.

 

[not_ally]

@MobjackBay, thank you, I have seen that thread, but it was nice to be reminded and to look at it again. It is definitely a good one!

@GuacamoleSalad, re FO's, adding to @MobjackBay’s link with some more, below. A couple of caveats: a big issue with many FO review links at this point is that some/many of the companies listed in older reviews are now out of business, and some/many of the FOs listed have either been discontinued or have had their maximum usage rate (MUR) lowered substantially, sometimes radically, in subsequent IFRA amendments.

Also, when you search, many forum reviews are OOB (out of the box) ones, I take these with a huge handful of salt since you do not know if they stick, accelerate/rice, discolor, etc., so are not very helpful for CP (although they can be much more helpful in B&B where the lye monster is not in play).

Apart from the links, many companies that sell FOs have soaping notes and reviews. The reviews – if there are enough about CP - can be very helpful regarding whether FOs stick/how they behave (some of the companies have search bars in the review sections, being able to search for “soap” makes it much easier if there are a lot of reviews.) I find company soaping notes helpful regarding A/D but less so regarding sticking/scent retention. But all this information is worth reading.

Once you get more familiar with FO companies (especially as the sales come up and you are tempted to buy), it's worth it to search on the company in the smf search function, or on google, to see which fragrances people recommend. If you use google, just enter the search term and add "forums" and it usually pulls up all the smf references. Eg, if you type "Nature's Garden FOs forums" the first set of links will be SMF ones.

SMF FO reviews excel:

https://tinyurl.com/y8yqhtlt

SMF stickers thread: https://www.soapmakingforum.com/threads/fo-stickers.59554/

Fragrance Buddy reviews:

https://www.soapmakingforum.com/threads/fragrance-buddy-fo-test.56966/

Rustic Escentuals/(now at WSP):

https://www.soapmakingforum.com/threads/rustic-escentuals-fragrance-reviews.60873/#post-610938

https://www.soapmakingforum.com/threads/rustic-escentuals-fragrance-reviews.60873/page-2#post-621607

@GuacamoleSalad, since you mentioned ginger eo being expensive, here's a well-rated RE ginger FO -

Sparkling ginger: https://www.wholesalesuppliesplus.com/products/sparkling-ginger-fragrance-oil.aspx?nbt=nb:adwords:g:20000991527:153384247372:655602672188&nb_adtype=&nb_kwd=&nb_ti=dsa-1463435756534&nb_mi=&nb_pc=&nb_pi=&nb_ppi=&nb_placement=&nb_li_ms=&nb_lp_ms=&nb_fii=&nb_ap=&nb_mt=&gad_source=1&gclid=CjwKCAjw3NyxBhBmEiwAyofDYaHdtwPFNuS5fgm8S-fugnWqeIwnD39pWyAv1ZkfIUu0N-DfM86qNhoCtHgQAvD_BwE

 

[ewhitake]

Sorry, watching Reacher with hubby.

Midwest Fragrance
Scent Memory
Simbi
Nurture Soap
Natures Garden
Candlescience
BeScented
Flaming Candle
Sweetcakes

There's alot more though.

Just got some lovely scents from Scent Memory. They send you 2 oz bottles and their fragrances are more expensive but also more sophisticated then others I've sampled.

 

[BWt]

For US members, I find that most of the fragrances I have purchased from Candle Science stick well at a 3% usage rate. I don’t tend to use above that. The only company I did was Scent Memory, and I stopped because it was too costly.

From Candle Science, the only one I couldn’t get to stick well was Black Currant and Jasmine. It was super faint. Otherwise, they’ve worked wonderfully.

Candle Science has notes on usage. Also IFRA. And soap acceleration or discoloration notes. I buy the one oz sample size as it’s perfect for testing. The Black Current Absinthe, Limoncello Cream, Paloma, Lavender Embers, all stick well in cp soap. CS also has mixing recommendations for their scents. After reading the scent notes it would be possible to add an EO based on a scent in one of their FO notes. The Patchouli and Litsea EO from CS are marvelous.

 

[GuacamoleSalad]

Thank you all very much!

 

[GuacamoleSalad]

@Mobjack Bay @KiwiMoose and anyone else who knows - how much litsea does it take to anchor a citrus blend? I used a fragrance calculator and it looks like the max I can use in a blend safely is 50%. Is that more than I need? Could I do something like folded orange or lime 90% and litsea only 10%? Or does litsea need to be a bigger proportion to stick?

 

[Mobjack Bay]

I'm not convinced that Litsea does all that much to anchor other EOs, but it does stick around longer/stronger than true citrus EOs. In that sense, it prolongs the citrusy scent of the soap. In the past I used as much as 100% Litsea, but the usage rates have come down and I am now using 25-50% in blends that I want to be citrus dominant. Using EOCalc, which is the only c@alculator I use for EOs, a blend of equal parts of Litsea, Orange and Lime is safe at 5% and a 50/50 blend of Litsea and Orange is safe at 3%. For 1000 g batch, it looks like the max safe usage of Litsea itself is about 17 g (1.7%; based playing around with EOCalc).