another soapbox rant

[thefarmerdaughter]

I live in a very rural area of Tn. Just up the road is a Memonite community. The majority of my neighbors craft things for sale by hand, or in an old fashion manor. And this is to be commended, I have the utmost respect for anyone who lovingly fashions items by hand. There are many quaint and interesting shops, eateries and even a sorghum mill in this community. It's where I grew up and where I'm raising my children.
But (and I know it sound cynical) at the end of the day our quaint community is a tourist trap. Reticently I've noticed more and more of the products for sale, are "outsourced". They come from all over the country. The products and packaging no longer appear hand made, although they are being sold as if they are. Which brings me to reason I'm writing this. My mother told me she had seen some "handmade" soap for sale at the general store. Thinking there was another soaper in my neighborhood, I decided to check it out. Here's what I found.
It says, handmade SOAP
Ingredients: Sorbitol, propyline glycol, sodium stearate, sodium Laureth sulfate, water, glycerine, aloe vera, vitamine E, sodiun myistate, triet hanolamine, TEA-stearate, TEA-myriatate, tetrasodium etidronate, pentasodium pentetate, fragance, color.

It's obviously detergent!
It says it's French Milled....?!
Also: Made from 100% vegetable oil to prevent clogging of pores!
Ok! Then wheres the veg oils in the ingredients? And I have personally Never had lard or tallow soap to "clog" my pores.
It claims to be a 7oz bar, I weighted it and it's not even 5.

I ranted all this to my husband, he laughed and rolled his eyes. I just had to share with someone who understands, Thanks now I feel better :lolno: (not really)

 

[AlchemyandAshes]

I feel your pain my soapy sister!!!
I took pictures of the labels of "natural" soaps at Cracker Barrel to use as comparison...no version of "natural", but that's another story. The "handmade" thing gets me. I recently walked up to a booth at a Fleamarket with a "natural handmade soap" sign. The vendor said she made it all by hand, but I read the ingredients (which were cheap M&P detergent) and I can guarantee she did not hand make the base. I asked her if they were M&P and she said no. So I asked if they were cold process...and she said no. At that point, I could tell she had no idea what I was talking about. If you want to market M&P as handcrafted, I don't have a problem with it, just tell the truth. Those bars you have pictured are obviously commercialized using marketing "buzz words" like "natural", "French milled", and "vegetable based" to attract consumers...and unfortunately the general public is uneducated about those tactics and take the product at the labels face value. Frustrating!
We as handmade soap makers just have to keep educating the public,our potential customers, about the differences and let them decide for theirselves, armed with FACTS, not marketing ploys.

 

[dyclement05]

I live in a very rural area of Tn. Just up the road is a Memonite community.

I'm curious - what part of TN? I will be in Knoxville for work the next two weeks and have nothing to do evenings and weekends, so if it's near enough I'd love to come check out the shops and such, and of course, avoid the tourist trap stuff. Heck, if you're close enough I'd even come buy some of your handmade soap.

I'd offer up some of mine but as a noob with only 1 fully cured batch under my belt, it would be extremely unexciting as hand made soap goes.

Thanks for the head's up on the pitfalls of "handmade" and "natural" labels!!

 

[Gryfonmoon]

In my opinion, if you're not French when you milled the soap, it's not "French Milled".

But seriously, that sucks. I hate to see things mis-labeled like that. Sounds almost like someone made a M&P soap at home or something.

 

[Genny]

Wow, someone is definitely practicing deceptive labeling. I wonder if they know that saying that it contains 100% vegetable oils and then not containing any is against the law?

 

[thefarmerdaughter]

and unfortunately the general public is uneducated about those tactics and take the product at the labels face value. Frustrating!We as handmade soap makers just have to keep educating the public,our potential customers, about the differences and let them decide for theirselves, armed with FACTS, not marketing ploys.

That's exactly what drives me crazy about it. It took me about 5 seconds to spot the problems with this bars label. But someone who didn't know the difference may have assumed this was cp soap or made from scratch soap or whatever you wanna call it. It's not fair to dupe people that way . And it's not just the label but the environment it's being sold in, surrounded by all these other handmade items.

dyclement, I'm 85 miles from Kville so...

 

[thefarmerdaughter]

So my husband says why don't look for a website for these people, then see if that website has a comment section.
:twisted: Buhahahah! he should know better than to joke like that with me!

 

[egirlxx7]

This was a great rant.

 

[sugarnik]

I've seen this soap before here in Ohio, several times and I thought the same thing! How can they market it like that?

 

[chicklet]

I saw that very same soap in a meat market/BBQ joint the other day! It was right there on the front counter and the price was $4.50. I am also in rural TN (middle) and have lots of Amish around, some very traditional and some more modern. I was at an Amish market yesterday buying some stuff (it's a great store, lots of bulk items and really yummy baked goods). They have some local stuff like honey, their own fresh eggs, they make all the bread and cookies and fried pies right there in the store's kitchen. Yesterday I decided to look for soap - I had never noticed before if they had any. Well they did. Two kinds very similar to what I saw at the meat market. One at least had a very homey looking wrapper made of cloth. The owners probably don't really know the difference, although the mom told me before that she has made soap but not in a long time. I'm the only soapmaker in my area except the traditional Amish and they only make one kind. I think it's going to be my job to educate this community. It's going to be a big job.

 

[melstan775]

They can market like that because no one pays attention to soap labels. It would take a lawsuit to stop it. Brazilian blowout has been misleading and lying for years and only this year a judge flat out said stop selling it in California. And that stuff is way worse then a mislabeled soap. Calling something natural when it is synthetic is a cakewalk against a product that is proven to cause cancer, smog, and a host of health problems. But that's apples to oranges. The point I was making is enforcement of labeling is not a priority for authorities. It should be though because mislabeling is a serious offense and can cause health problems too

 

[gratia]

I'd offer up some of mine but as a noob with only 1 fully cured batch under my belt, it would be extremely unexciting as hand made soap goes.

What better way to get a nice real opinion then by sharing some of what you make with another? I say bring some if you meet up and see.

 

[WallFlower]

It's kind of upsetting that they are getting away with that, but it makes me laugh at the same time. Who decided to just slap on 100% veg oil? Lol... I just wonder what were they thinking? "Oh yeah people will totally fall for this." Or if they really think that it has veggie oil in it? It seems like melt and pour.

 

[VanessaP]

I live in a very rural area of Tn. Just up the road is a Memonite community. The majority of my neighbors craft things for sale by hand, or in an old fashion manor. And this is to be commended, I have the utmost respect for anyone who lovingly fashions items by hand. There are many quaint and interesting shops, eateries and even a sorghum mill in this community. It's where I grew up and where I'm raising my children.
But (and I know it sound cynical) at the end of the day our quaint community is a tourist trap. Reticently I've noticed more and more of the products for sale, are "outsourced". They come from all over the country. The products and packaging no longer appear hand made, although they are being sold as if they are. Which brings me to reason I'm writing this. My mother told me she had seen some "handmade" soap for sale at the general store. Thinking there was another soaper in my neighborhood, I decided to check it out. Here's what I found.
It says, handmade SOAP
Ingredients: Sorbitol, propyline glycol, sodium stearate, sodium Laureth sulfate, water, glycerine, aloe vera, vitamine E, sodiun myistate, triet hanolamine, TEA-stearate, TEA-myriatate, tetrasodium etidronate, pentasodium pentetate, fragance, color.
3
It's obviously detergent!
It says it's French Milled....?!
Also: Made from 100% vegetable oil to prevent clogging of pores!
Ok! Then wheres the veg oils in the ingredients? And I have personally Never had lard or tallow soap to "clog" my pores.
It claims to be a 7oz bar, I weighted it and it's not even 5.

I ranted all this to my husband, he laughed and rolled his eyes. I just had to share with someone who understands, Thanks now I feel better :lolno: (not really)

Muddy Pond, yeah, and The Country Cupboard has them too. I giggle every time I see the name LOL However, the bars at TCC say they're only like 3.9oz. Been nearly a year since I trekked all the way out to the MP General Store so I don't remember the size on the bars when I was there last.

The whole freakin' area is a tourist trap, not just Muddy Pond LOL

 

[AngelMomma]

Soooo.......my question is where/who do you report things like this to? Locally if there is a disturbance or a car accident, we call local PD. Here on the forum if someone sees SPAM etc it is reported to the Mods.......etc. So I wonder if there is a way to report it or an address you could mail the bar with a list of all the info you stated. Now that might make you feel like you are able to do SOMETHING about these ppl that obviously so easily disregard the labeling laws.

 

[melstan775]

You would report it to the FDA and maybe to the copyright or patent office if their soap has any of those marks on them. Maybe a law firm who specializes in sensational cases. Bottom line if mislabeling product is a serious offense that governing agencies take seriously, if they are made aware of it. they don't go looking, but enough complaints might open a case.

 

[VanessaP]

Well, something to keep in mind is that handmade is a loose definition, as is soap because MP is still "soap" so to speak as in, its shaped like a bar of soap and it cleans you like a bar of soap does. National brands are called soap by the majority of the people that use them, not just a moisturizer bar or detergent bar.

I prefer the term handcrafted for MP bars, but handmade vs handcrafted is a sticky situation to get into. There are no hard and fast rules for that.

French Milled = label appeal just because its "hot" right now, just like argan oil is mostly for label appeal in soap.

Sodium stearate is saponified stearic acid, which can be derived either from palm or tallow. So that is probably where they are getting the veg oil bit from. Sodium myristate is the saponified myristic acid, and myristic acid is what gives coconut oil its cleansing power. At least, that's my understanding and research put into those ingredients.

 

[AngelMomma]

Well, something to keep in mind is that handmade is a loose definition, as is soap because MP is still "soap" so to speak as in, its shaped like a bar of soap and it cleans you like a bar of soap does. National brands are called soap by the majority of the people that use them, not just a moisturizer bar or detergent bar.

I prefer the term handcrafted for MP bars, but handmade vs handcrafted is a sticky situation to get into. There are no hard and fast rules for that.

French Milled = label appeal just because its "hot" right now, just like argan oil is mostly for label appeal in soap.

Sodium stearate is saponified stearic acid, which can be derived either from palm or tallow. So that is probably where they are getting the veg oil bit from. Sodium myristate is the saponified myristic acid, and myristic acid is what gives coconut oil its cleansing power. At least, that's my understanding and research put into those ingredients.

So what your saying is that they are calling Pringles a fresh baked potato......:lolno: Dirty birds! TONS of products do that now, its sad really that you can't trust unless you read labels and research for yourself.

 

[melstan775]

So what your saying is that they are calling Pringles a fresh baked potato......:lolno: Dirty birds! TONS of products do that now, its sad really that you can't trust unless you read labels and research for yourself.

Actually Angel I think it's just because we're Americans. Other countries have a lot stricter guidelines on labels and product claims on public consumables. America isn't so into it. Broad definitions protect people, company, and governing agencies because they are so vague. Capitalism depends upon creative use of vague ideas, I guess.

 

[Genny]

The only legally incorrect things they are doing is:
Saying that there is 100% vegetable oil in it.
Saying it weighs 7 oz, when it weighs less.
Putting the weight on the back panel instead of the front panel.

Handmade has no legal definition, so they're doing nothing wrong with that. Annoying, but true.

If you bought this soap, you can report them to the FDA for deceptive labeling practices.