All my soap in complete DOS help!!

[Atihcnoc]

Hi, this is the first time something like this happens. Have no idea why as I used ROE to keep my oils in good condition, and as well in all my recipe (1 drop x every ounce of oils) that was the rule of thumb Lori Nova gave me when I took her CP boot camp course.

The original color of my soap was pale green, I gave the color with green french clay. I make this soap in Oct. 31 - 2013 and leave it for 7 months in an open aired space (tray) after that I move to my new home and I put it in a cardboard box for 2 months. I opened a week ago and found this surprise, I make this in 1/2 inch and 1 inch thick. The thicker is less covered but has the same as the one in the left.

What can make our soaps to go that rancid?? please help me!! I need to know why this can happen to avoid this to happen again.

Maybe the lard or the castor oil? here are the ingredients:
Coconut oil, Lard, Olive oil, Shea butter, Rice Bran oil, Castor oil, (all of them with ROE) Green French clay.

I added Lebermuth Oatmeal Honey (F.O.) I really don't know if could be the fragrance as I use most of this ingredients (oils) in all my recipes.

What can make a soap go this bad? I really appreciate your help.

Please, Please, Please....help me!!

Thanks to all of you.

 

[The Efficacious Gentleman]

RoE is not a preservative. IIRC it is an anti-oxident more than anything. Rice Bran oil is prone to DOS, from what I hear - I don't use it myself, as OO is easier for me to find.

What was your lye discount %?

 

[Atihcnoc]

I used superfat 10% and water as percentage of oils 30%.

That was before I start using my lye concentration 50/50, I continue SF 10%.

 

[dixiedragon]

Do you smell any rancidity under the scent of the FO? Where do you have your soaps drying?

 

[IrishLass]

I've never used Lebermuth's Oatmeal honey, but many Oatmeal Honey fragrances discolor to tan in soap, so it could be something as benign as that (maybe). Along with Dixiedragon, I'm wondering if it smells rancid at all?


IrishLass

 

[Seawolfe]

As far as I understand it - if it doesn't smell bad, its not oxidised / rancid / DOS
Don't most OMH fragrances have vanilla in them? Could that be a culprit?

 

[houseofwool]

The color doesn't see quite right for DOS (IMHO) and I too am wondering about the fragrance oil. On bars that I have had that had a minor case of DOS, the smell was gag-inducing. Granted I have a super-sniffer, but I had to toss them and take them outside immediately because it was bad.

 

[LunaSkye]

Rice bran oil is prone to rancidity, but I'm curious as to how much of it did you use? was it over 20%? Another soaper on this thread (post #4) used it as 15-20% of the total oils used with no problems.

I'll apologize for not being much help (I never used RBO), but the only helpful thing I can think of is to add 1% of T-50 vitamin E to the RBO. While it is prone to DOS, other people have used higher percentages in their soaps:

http://www.soapmakingforum.com/showthread.php?t=25537&highlight=rice+bran (post 4)

http://www.mommamuse.com/2007/07/09/rice-bran-soap-recipe/

 

[dixiedragon]

In my experience, FOs discolor from the outside in from air exposure, not from the inside out! On my screen, it's an orangy color vs being a tan or chocolate milk color.

 

[dixiedragon]

Atih - how does it feel? My soaps with DOS always have a tacky feeling to them - even the parts that aren't orange.

 

[Atihcnoc]

Hi, thanks for all the questions.

=I used 10% of RBO in the total formula

=I know ROE is an antioxidant and a help to prevent oxidation of the oils, that is why I add it to my oils. I don't use any preservative.

=Rancidity: it has a slightly smell of rancid not a strong smell ( I smell a few that are completely brown), still smell like almond (the FO smell like almond I don't know if the honey oatmeal smell like that, it was my first time using this F.O.)

= I put my soaps to dry in a hard plastic rack.

= Just one feels slightly tacky, the others feels like soap, dry.

=I know DOS are more orange color and the soap is more brown than orange, maybe because the mix of both colors? orange and green is brown.

I didn't use a vanilla color stabilizer, have no idea about use it in this F.O. I have experience with vanilla in another formula, it was turned completely dark brown, it was an experiment to see how the soaps looks after use the vanilla without VCS, I used for that MP soap.

This is very strange as I still have 4 soaps with the original color a beautiful pale green and in good condition, if it was the F.O. doesn't have to be all the soaps the same?

I have a question about the fragrance, the oatmeal honey smell like almonds? this one have a very nice and strong smell to almonds. I was going to ask to Lebermuth about it but had to travel and completely forgot about it.

I wash my hands with the soap that has a rancid smell and didn't leave the strong smell in my hands it was a mix of slightly rancid with almond.

Do you use a preservative in your soaps? if so which one can I use to prevent this?

Again thanks a lot for all your help.

 

[Ellacho]

I don't think those are DOS. They look more like discoloration from FO and oatmeal honey has the vanilla content.

 

[Obsidian]

I don't understand why everyone is saying discolor from FO. These soap were cured for 7 months before being packed away and at that time, they were still light colored. It wasn't until unpacking that the OP found them discolored.

DOS does usually start out as orange spots but left to its own devices, it will eventually cover a entire bar. If the soap isn't sticky or smelly, its still usable.
Its really hard to say what caused the DOS to start but I would suspect that lack of air flow and/or humidity from being in a box. If I was you, I would unpack any soap you have stored in a similar fashion and put it some place with more air flow.

 

[Atihcnoc]

It is very strange, for me the soaps are fully cover with DOS why a few has it and others don't? have no idea...but the one covered with brown color smell rancid, not very strong but have that ugly smell.

We are using those for the hands as it has a beautiful lather and my husband didn't care about the smell, so we are going to use it in our hands in the kitchen.

For me it is very strange what happens with the soaps as I have all the soaps in the same plastic racks and in a central air conditioning house, the air is flowing and very cold.

I normally put the cured soaps in a cardboard box with a date and name, is that not good for the soaps?

 

[godschild]

Oh noooooo! I have all this RBO and want to toss it out my back door because of DOS possibility. I've added T-50 to it and I put T-50 in each batch of soap. Hopefully that will help. Thinking of just cooking with the 6 gal I have and buying some more OO. The only OO I have around is EVOO though and it's all expensive. Head in hands.

 

[Ellacho]

I don't understand why everyone is saying discolor from FO. These soap were cured for 7 months before being packed away and at that time, they were still light colored. It wasn't until unpacking that the OP found them discolored.

DOS does usually start out as orange spots but left to its own devices, it will eventually cover a entire bar. If the soap isn't sticky or smelly, its still usable.
Its really hard to say what caused the DOS to start but I would suspect that lack of air flow and/or humidity from being in a box. If I was you, I would unpack any soap you have stored in a similar fashion and put it some place with more air flow.

Obsidian, that's a very good point! You are right it doesn't take 7 months later of FO to turn its color. Thanks for sharing your thought .

 

[CaraBou]

Oh noooooo! I have all this RBO and want to toss it out my back door because of DOS possibility. I've added T-50 to it and I put T-50 in each batch of soap. Hopefully that will help. Thinking of just cooking with the 6 gal I have and buying some more OO. The only OO I have around is EVOO though and it's all expensive. Head in hands.

Don't toss the rice bran oil, especially without smelling it first. Information I consider scientifically reputable suggests RBO is quite stable. This is because RBO is a good source of tocopherol antioxidents. Vitamin E is a tocopherol, as is the T50 you've been using, godschild. Check this out to help you evaluate:
http://swiftcraftymonkey.blogspot.com/2009/11/rice-bran-oil.html

I'm not a chemist or really great soaper so I might be wrong. But the warnings I keep seeing about RBO on this forum don't pan out in my own investigation or in my own experience. It's quite expensive where I live so I use it sparingly -which means I try to make it last. No problems with year old oil or year old soap.

Back on track... I can't definitively answer the OPs original questions, but it is odd that the problem surfaced after so long, and only after the soaps were stowed away for awhile.

My question would be: do you live in a warm humid environment? I think that is different than cool and humid when it comes to developing dos so my range of experience may be too limited for your situation. Good luck in figuring it out.

 

[godschild]

Thanks CaraBou, I knew I read that it's supposed to have a good shelf life and is high in tocopherols. I'll just use it until I see spots and then toss it as far as I can throw it lol.

 

[sagehill]

I've found RBO and other polyunsaturated fats to be DOS-prone if unrefrigerated, or even if kept too long in the fridge, never mind out of fridge.

It's best to buy small amounts of these unsaturated oils, store them in the fridge, and use them up quickly. Cheap olive oils (ie, grocery store brands that may or may not be 100% olive) can also get heavy DOS unless kept in the fridge, even despite ROE.

ROE only helps prevent DOS... it does not actually prevent DOS; and it must be added to the bottle immediately upon opening for the first time, not added to oils at each soaping.

Otherwise, humidity is definitely a factor, and there are reports that storing on metal racks, using faucet water, or using UM oxides that contain metals also cause DOS.

 

[Atihcnoc]

When I read all the benefits and vitamins that RBO has it makes more difficult to believe that an oil with a lot of Vit-E can oxidize that fast.

For me is like a habit that as soon as I opened a bottle of oil I added the ROE and again when I'm preparing the formula, so I do this twice.

I like to leave my soaps to rest for 2 to 3 months, after that if I need the resting tray I storage the soaps in a cardboard box.

What about to keep the soaps in a cardboard box? cardboard is good or bad for the soaps?

I live in an humid state but I'm allergic to heat, that's why the temperature in my house is always very cold and is where I keep my soaps.

With all this I'm thinking in maybe give a try to the preservatives, any of you use it? do you have a suggestion about it?

Thanks a lot to all of you for your comments, that put us to think and learn a lot about possibilities and mistakes we make.

I will follow the behave of the soaps (same batch) that remain in good condition.