A (Probably) Stupid Question

[scotsman]

So I've been making soap for quite some time now but as of yet have not made a true Castile soap. Sure, I've made plenty of "Bastile" soaps but always put off making a Castile for a couple reasons. The first, and foremost, is the incredibly long cure time. I am, at my core, a very impatient person...even moreso when it comes to leaving the soap alone to cure. I have enough trouble with my standard six week cure...so much so that I have to make six extra bars per batch so that I can do "quality control checks" along the way. I usually test one a few days after de-molding, another at two weeks, and every week thereafter. In my defense, with each testing I take meticulous notes on the properties of the soap at the time of the testing. I tell myself that this is to see how the soap is progressing over the period of the cure. In reality, it's really just that I'm terribly impatient and want instant gratification. The notes, however, do usually turn out to be quite helpful in deciding what changes, if any, I need to make when replicating a batch. All this being said, it seems almost cruel to make myself wait a year for a finished product. Sure, I could test some bars out sooner, but from everything I've read I would likely be disappointed with them until they've properly "aged". I've also read that even fully aged Castile has a low lather and can tend to have a slimy feel to it. I know that for a soap to truly be a Castile the oil/fat makeup must be 100% olive oil. My possibly dumb question is as follows. If I use 100% olive oil for the recipe but include other non-oil additives to balance the qualities of the soap, does it remain a Castile since the only oil used is olive or do these additives make it fall under the auspices of a Bastile? I would really like to make a true Castile, and if the addition of other additives will make it not so then I will suck it up and leave them out. I was thinking perhaps a small amount of sodium lactate and perhaps a couple other cosmetic additives that would boost the lather has anybody here used non-oil additives to balance out the properties of a Castile? If so, what did you use and how did it work out for you?I want my soap to be the best it can possibly be, but I also want it to be authentic. Any input would be greatly appreciated as I am looking to make a decent size batch of it next week. Thanks everybody. Sorry for being overly long-winded but my meds keep me wired and up late at night. The coffee probably didn't help either, lol!

 

[IrishLass]

I don't know what country you live in, but over here in the US, a soap does not have to contain 100% olive oil to be labeled 'Castile'. Just ask Dr. Bronner and also Kirk's. Or the FTC for that matter (the US Federal Trade Commission). I did a little investigative digging on the subject a few years back and posted my results in the link below (See post #16):

http://www.soapmakingforum.com/showthread.php?t=26367&highlight=kirk's&page=2

Anyway, if you want to go the purist/authentic route, 100% OO water and lye are what you should aim for. But if you ask me, there's no harm in experimenting if you so desire, especially if you're just making it for yourself. I myself have an experiment on my 'to try' list to make a 100% OO Castile with a little bit of SLSa in the mix to make it more bubbly, and I don't feel guilty about it at all. I'll also be adding some sodium lactate to it. I don't sell, so I don't need to please anyone but myself.

Also, there's no law that I'm aware of that dictates that you must wait a year before using a Castile. Although longer cure is better with Castile than a shorter cure for sure, I'm fine with using mine at 3 months at the earliest. It all comes down to each individual soap-maker's preference. No need to be so rigid if you ask me. Be free to experiment!

Why don't you make a batch of both and compare?


IrishLass

 

[neeners]

I am exactly like you, impatient as anything and want instant gratification with my soaps.

with that said, I made new years castile along with many others here at SMF. the thing that's helped me with it was leaving it somewhere hard to reach and where I didn't have to look at everyday. it sat at the back of my closet for months in a hard to reach place. it had time to do its thing while I was busy making other soaps. it's been 8 months, and I've tried only one whole bar up to now to see how the cure feels throughout its first year of cure. another thing that has helped is I've moved countries, and have had to leave most of my soap in storage until I go back next (in Nov). the castile is in that pile. so I can't PHYSICALLY see my soaps (which hurts me, but that's another story), which helps me not fiddle with them!

if you want to be a castile purist, I suggest sticking to OO, water and lye recipe, and just suck it up, leave it somewhere, and don't look at it for a LONG LONG time.

and I love IrishLass's idea - make a few batches with different additives (if you're wanting to add stuff to it), and see which you like best.

oh, I still don't really like my castile at 8 months. not a fan of the slime. hoping it'll be better when it hits the 1 year mark. if not, then it'll just have to sit there and wait some more.

 

[Dorymae]

Go for it Scotsman, make a few batches all within the same week with different additives and maybe one with nothing. Then make an additional soap per week to help curb your wait time. Try different techniques will help as well. Remember out of sight out of mind so cure them away from your other soaps. Pfft - you got this!!

 

[scotsman]

Making an additional batch per week won't be a problem. I actually make 2-3 decent size batches per week minimum just to keep up with demand, lol! I like the idea of making a couple different batches to play with the properties. I've also noticed the ingredients on Dr. Bronner's "Castile" soap and to be quite honest it kind of ticked me off a little bit. That soap is no more a Castile than a bottle of dawn dish soap, lol! I know there's no legal regulation of the term, at least in the US, but I was wondering more about the ethical side of the question. I do sell my soap and don't wish to mislead any customers, even unintentionally. To this end I do a great deal of research and testing on every batch before it ever gets packaged for sale. I'm also lucky to have a live-in "guinea pig". My fiancée tries out all my soaps and she has some of the most sensitive skin I've ever encountered. If it passes her test then it's a good bet virtually anybody could safely use it, allergies excluded of course. The first couple batches of cp I ever put together made her skin break out something terrible and had no adverse effect on my skin. I must admit, however, that I'm a very poor litmus test for bath & body products as nothing seems to ever really irritate my skin. I get commercial-grade degreaser on my bare skin regularly and have no reaction to it whatsoever. The only thing I've found to consistently irritate the hell out of my skin is silicone caulking. Gotta wear gloves with that one, lol!

 

[Dorymae]

Then you can do this. The cure for impatience is to stay busy with equally interesting projects. Get out your "experiments" notebook and after you make your olive oil soaps get to experimenting, before you know it a few months will have gone by and then you can take a bar of each type and test. Try using an old vegetable peeler and just use a few curls to test, that way you won't be using several bars.

 

[Candybee]

I also joined in during the New Year's Eve castile making. So now my batch is going on 9 months old. I put the castile soaps on my top curing shelf and well, just left them alone. I have only pulled one bar to date at about 5 months. Funny, but the longer I wait the more I tend to quit thinking about it.

For this batch I used 100% olive oil with distilled water and lye. I did add some lavender EO so as far as some are concerned its not a "true" castile. Personally I think thats bull hockey but that JMO. If you think about it, one of the most famous castiles, Aleppo is not 100% olive oil and Dr. Bronners is in no way 100% olive oil yet they are both called castile soap.

 

[neeners]

If you think about it, one of the most famous castiles, Aleppo is not 100% olive oil and Dr. Bronners is in no way 100% olive oil yet they are both called castile soap.

Aleppo soap is Aleppo soap. I don't think anyone considers that castile (like how savon de Marseille is not considered castile). Dr. Bronners is merely false advertising.

 

[Meganmischke]

I too have thought about this. I have made castile and let it sit for almost 2 years. I am just not a fan of castile. I don't get the hype honestly. I think some additives could make some big differences in the end. I think if I was selling I would be ethically ok with selling a castile with additives. As long as it is clearly labeled I don't think there is any problem. In fact just earlier I was looking at a site that had goat milk castile for sale. As far as waiting I am terrible as soon as soap stops zapping I try it.

 

[jules92207]

Another probably stupid question - does it matter which olive oil you use? Pomace, Pure, Extra Virgin? I made one with olive oil pomace and some lavender eo, I don't really mind if its not "castile" but I was curious.

 

[neeners]

Jules, I asked that question too when I made mine, but no one really knows. I guess, we'd all have to take a trip to Castile and hunt around for some old soap making factories and see what they use.... trip anyone???

 

[jules92207]

I am so down!

 

[scotsman]

Yeah, I would totally go to Castile and geek out on all the soaps. I'm a fun travel partner too because I tend to get into shenanigans quite often, lol! We definitely need a Soap Making Forum field trip. We could go to Castile, then Aleppo, and finally hit up France for a guided tour of a soap milling factory. I'm such a nerd, lmao!

 

[neeners]

I'd love to go to Aleppo, but I fear it's a little to dangerous for me. but I'm definitely down for France though!!

 

[herackonchiasa]

Yeah, I would totally go to Castile and geek out on all the soaps. I'm a fun travel partner too because I tend to get into shenanigans quite often, lol! We definitely need a Soap Making Forum field trip. We could go to Castile, then Aleppo, and finally hit up France for a guided tour of a soap milling factory. I'm such a nerd, lmao!

Don't forget Syria for the laurel !