debikers
Active Member
i'm trying lard at 60%, coconut at 30%, and castor oil at 10%, but the creaminess and bubbles are low
A Good Loaf Decoration Soap Recipe
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You really won't be able to tell where the soap will end up for about a month, although I know it is almost impossible not to test before that when it is one of the first few batches.
I usually cut thin slices of each end and then cut each of those into quarters so that if I want I can test one of the little pieces every week to see how the soap changes. I promise it will feel very different (especially the lather) 4 to 6 wks out. I am surprised that the creaminess and bubbles are low with those amounts of those oils, though, how long has that soap cured? Some people find that castor makes the soap softer/gooier at that amount, but that shouldn't effect the creaminess or the bubbles, I would think (I have never gone quite that high on castor.) Hopefully someone else will jump in and correct me if I am wrong, though.
I usually cut thin slices of each end and then cut each of those into quarters so that if I want I can test one of the little pieces every week to see how the soap changes. I promise it will feel very different (especially the lather) 4 to 6 wks out. I am surprised that the creaminess and bubbles are low with those amounts of those oils, though, how long has that soap cured? Some people find that castor makes the soap softer/gooier at that amount, but that shouldn't effect the creaminess or the bubbles, I would think (I have never gone quite that high on castor.) Hopefully someone else will jump in and correct me if I am wrong, though.
debikers
Active Member
i've not made it not_ally! i want to make a lard soap, just haven't settled on a recipe yet. the numbers for bubbles and creaminess isn't what i want. will it have less bubbles and creaminess than the
CP OO/CO/ soap I have been making?
CP OO/CO/ soap I have been making?
The problem w/the numbers is that they don't really capture everything. They provide a pretty good starting point in a lot of instances, though. 30 % CO and 10% castor (assuming no goo) should make your bar pretty bubbly. But that much CO would be *way* too stripping for me. You can compensate by increasing the SF, but that reduces bubbles as well, and for me I still think it would not work. It is so dependent on what you need for your skin type that it is sort of a juggling act for a while.
So I stick w/my basic recipe, which is lower in the bubbly/cleansing oils, and then add stuff that seems to make good lather for me. Usually sugar, sodium lactate (for hardening, but I think improves lather), coconut milk (again, improves the feel of the lather for me but by increasing SF may decrease the amount of it), aloe, EDTA (I add this to deal w/soap scum, but I personally think it helps with lather as well.) You can see from all the parentheticals that there is some juggling in the poor overtaxed soapmaking brain!
ETA: If you want to experiment w/bubbly oils for your friend, they are pretty much the high cleansing ones like coconut, palm kernel oil (*not* palm oil), babassu. Plus castor.
So I stick w/my basic recipe, which is lower in the bubbly/cleansing oils, and then add stuff that seems to make good lather for me. Usually sugar, sodium lactate (for hardening, but I think improves lather), coconut milk (again, improves the feel of the lather for me but by increasing SF may decrease the amount of it), aloe, EDTA (I add this to deal w/soap scum, but I personally think it helps with lather as well.) You can see from all the parentheticals that there is some juggling in the poor overtaxed soapmaking brain!
ETA: If you want to experiment w/bubbly oils for your friend, they are pretty much the high cleansing ones like coconut, palm kernel oil (*not* palm oil), babassu. Plus castor.
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debikers
Active Member
yeah i hear ya! my brain is working so hard it's steaming!!! I'll figure something out. it will just take time. and this friend, he just wants me to basically invent him a soap for himself to sell, so I am not going to jump through too many hoops for him unless i can create a bar that will be good for more than a few people. That way I can use it also. i have dry skin and thought tallow would be good, but you say Lard will be better than tallow for dry skin?? I have already bought the Lard, so I am gonna try it. just gotta tweak my recipe before i get started. thank you Not_ally for your help!! your the best!
One caution here, it will take a long time for you (or him) to get to the point where the soap will be ready to sell! This is just the starting point. Three months after starting, I got rid of all the batches I had made (30+) because I realized they were creating so much nasty soap scum, and I could fix that by adding a chelator/EDTA. Looking back at the soaps I have made over the last 9 mos (100+ batches), many things have changed in them, colors and fragrances have morphed, the soap changes on cure, it is not a quick process.
Especially if you tinker a lot w/different oils, the only way to tell what is happening is to change one, wait for a month, see the effect. Repeat, repeatedly
That is one of the reasons I like having my basic recipe and just changing things one at a time. It is still not fast, but it is faster than jiggering w/a zillion oils.
Especially if you tinker a lot w/different oils, the only way to tell what is happening is to change one, wait for a month, see the effect. Repeat, repeatedly
That is one of the reasons I like having my basic recipe and just changing things one at a time. It is still not fast, but it is faster than jiggering w/a zillion oils.
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debikers
Active Member
I agree. You can't keep changing things up. You'll never know what is working and how it's working. I figure if I use a recipe someone else is using, it
Must work. Then I can make subtle changes to see if they make a difference. I couldn't imagine throwing out 30 batches of soap!! I am using mine up myself. I also told "what's his name" (lol) that I thought my soap was very good in the lather department and sort of slick. I was worried about falling in the tub. I do want something that will make my skin soft and not so dry. Again, that's why I am wanting to try Lard. Do you cook your Lard recipe after trace, or just pour it into molds? I've seen it done both ways.
Must work. Then I can make subtle changes to see if they make a difference. I couldn't imagine throwing out 30 batches of soap!! I am using mine up myself. I also told "what's his name" (lol) that I thought my soap was very good in the lather department and sort of slick. I was worried about falling in the tub. I do want something that will make my skin soft and not so dry. Again, that's why I am wanting to try Lard. Do you cook your Lard recipe after trace, or just pour it into molds? I've seen it done both ways.
By this, do you mean CPOP (Cold process/oven process)? I usually do myself, but that is very much a question of personal preference, and what you are looking for in a specific soap. CPOPing/forced gelling usually makes the colors brighter/more saturated and helps the soap unmold faster, but ungelled soaps are beautiful in a different, creamy way.
ETA: usually the term "cooking" is only used used w/HP.
debikers
Active Member
i saw a woman on youtube mix the lard and oils with the lye to trace and then put it in a slow cooker. then she put it in the molds and i believe covered them with plastic wrap and towels. i have watched so many i'm not sure about the plastic wrap, but i know for a fact she put it in the crock pot. i am just a beginner, and i don't have all the answers, but my soaps i have made, have been popular with friends and family. Maybe they just don't expect much lol. and its free!! but I like it and that's all that really matters I guess.
That sounds like HP. I haven't done that yet, I keep meaning to but going on the the next CP question. I will defer to the many accomplished HP'er's on that one!
You do have to tell your friend that selling is a long way off though. Your questions are all good, and I think you are going about things in the right way, but you have to have much more knowledge (and then practice) on each process (CP and HP are v. similar, but have differences) before you should even think about selling. Most people here recommend working on your soaps for a year before that, for me it would probably be considerably more than that because I am cautious.
You do have to tell your friend that selling is a long way off though. Your questions are all good, and I think you are going about things in the right way, but you have to have much more knowledge (and then practice) on each process (CP and HP are v. similar, but have differences) before you should even think about selling. Most people here recommend working on your soaps for a year before that, for me it would probably be considerably more than that because I am cautious.
debikers
Active Member
he is the one wanting to sell soap. I am happy making it and giving it away! i just enjoy the process!! I will be trying different soap recipes to see what I like best. I am only 4 batches into a long trip if I continue to like doing it. Right now I am happy with the CP OO/CO that I am using. The only thing I would like to play with is the castor oil. Just to see if it bubbles more. Thoughts?? Also, what do you use for color??? I cannot decide on a product for CP to color it or do swirls and such. Tried purple Mica on my lavender soap and wasn't happy with the shade. I don't like mica for sure.
I would not give that friend any more than 2 bars a month - enough for personal use.
Plus, it's like any reseller, in that he knows little to nothing about the product he is selling.
Customer: "Excuse me Mr Soap Selling Man, is this soap okay to use under these conditions?"
Mr Soap Selling Man: (to himself, " no idea, but I don't want to lose a sale") "why of course it is! This soap is hand made in a traditional style, is all natural and more words that mean very little and border on Snake Oil territory. This soap will be perfect for you!"
Your soap should only be sold when you would be ready to do so and WANT to do so.
Plus, it's like any reseller, in that he knows little to nothing about the product he is selling.
Customer: "Excuse me Mr Soap Selling Man, is this soap okay to use under these conditions?"
Mr Soap Selling Man: (to himself, " no idea, but I don't want to lose a sale") "why of course it is! This soap is hand made in a traditional style, is all natural and more words that mean very little and border on Snake Oil territory. This soap will be perfect for you!"
Your soap should only be sold when you would be ready to do so and WANT to do so.
TwystedPryncess
Well-Known Member
I wouldn't diss all micas because one didn't work the way you wanted it to. It's possible you may have not used enough, or too much, or a pigment or oxide would have done a better job. Personally, I love micas, pigments and oxides. They are my go-to's for colorants, but I use all of them, and there are shades. Color is also a live and learn process. I had brick red oxide that no soaper ever has ever had morph, morph on me because I HP'd it. So, process can make a difference as well. Mica also will not keep its shine in CP unless it sits on top of the soap.
And I do believe that once you make a good bar of lard soap, you will be forever addicted to the stuff. I will forever more make my personal soaps lardy lardy! It's sooo dreamy--slow tracing, easy to acquire, easy on the pocketbook, makes a creamy lather, makes a dreamy soap. Perfection, I say.
And I do believe that once you make a good bar of lard soap, you will be forever addicted to the stuff. I will forever more make my personal soaps lardy lardy! It's sooo dreamy--slow tracing, easy to acquire, easy on the pocketbook, makes a creamy lather, makes a dreamy soap. Perfection, I say.
I use everything, micas/oxides/pigments/liquid colorants. I like them all, for different things. That is the one thing that I do change up a lot in the soaps, just b/c it is kind of easy to see where/why the changes occur, if they do (I note which colorant I use in my notes, and take a picture so that I can confirm that things have held/changed.)
Purple/blue micas are more likely to morph generally though, you may have just gotten a morpher. The only way to try and avoid that is to see if there are any reviews on the web site. Also I keep notes on the recipe and on the bottle/package if it morphs so that I don't use it again if it was a result I did not like.
Purple/blue micas are more likely to morph generally though, you may have just gotten a morpher. The only way to try and avoid that is to see if there are any reviews on the web site. Also I keep notes on the recipe and on the bottle/package if it morphs so that I don't use it again if it was a result I did not like.
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TwystedPryncess
Well-Known Member
Yes, I have liquid colors too! And some color blocks. The liquid colors I have in my cabinet are bleeders so I have an ombre planned for sometime in the future. The best thing to do always as our wise NA says is just takes your notes. I use a paper notebook then copy over into OneNote. You can use anything-- Scrivener, Word, a notebook, a bunch of notebooks, whatever you think is handy, then change it later to re organize as it suits. Research the colorant before you buy it to see how it behaves, and work with that. And sometimes, you may just get a surprise no matter how much you research (i.e. my hot processed red brick oxide. It turned a lovely shade of purple. Who knew??) And then there is mixing your colors to get a color pallette or a certain color you want. Then there is the Umph of not using enough color because you don't want to waste your expensive micas, or get it too dark...etc. Color is a whole world. But learn to love the micas, and all the colors (although I am leery about the NG FUN blocks. Anyone tried those and liked them?)
True, TP, the liquid colorants (also lakes/dyes) do bleed, I don't think I've ever come across one that doesn't. But I often kind of like that, and the brightness/saturation of the colors, so it works for me, but if you want really crisp/defined layers they are not as good. I've never used blocks at all, I will have to check them out. Do you generally like them?
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debikers
Active Member
thank you all for your feedback. I tried a purple mica and it was pretty, but expensive and i needed to use a lot to get the shade i wanted. Also, do the glycerin blocks for M&P work for CP? just curious. they are more abundant in my area. Mr soap man is taking a class in the near future, so he can learn from someone else. He also said my soap didn't have enough EO in it. I don't want to stink all day for crying out loud. also, i still want to make lard soap and found an interesting recipe on here this morning. I may try it. I want something for me personally for dry skin as well. It was the 80% lard soaps..ok I get it now thread. can't hurt. thank you all again. I will post as soon as i find time to make it!!!
