A gift

[squidstings]

I don't believe in the term 'conditioning' when it comes to soap. Those were my 2 cents about soap with cleansing number of 24 being theoretically too harsh, as mentioned earlier in the thread. My theory is it shouldn't if it's with FCO instead of regular CO. There are still a lot of contradictions in the database of the calculators we use, and the supposed qualities of a bar are subject to interpretation.


'"Soap is soap" it cleans...That might explain "cleansing". Would be a nice, simple, explanation. I can dream'

While all properly made soap cleans, some bars are more stripping than others. So it makes sense to say that some clean more. The cleansing number in the calculator is there for a reason. While I don't mind soap high in lauric/myristic (with CO as high as 33% of oil weight, or even 100% with high SF), there are people whose skin is sensitive and doesn't react well to CO even at 15%. So that's something to consider.


'I find info like "i got this result..." FAR more valuable and reliable. Everyone I've spoken to, who knows chemistry, keeps saying that polarity should be a problem for me, after I've already shared anecdotes about years of successful incorporation of colloidal silver, and more recently gold.'

To me, adding gold to soap is the same as adding silver to toothpaste and diamonds and rubies to shampoo. To those who claim otherwise and see actual benefits, I say 'placebo'.

Disregarding superfats and post trace a dditives that aren't bound up by saponification... If one recipe can "strip" nutrients from the skin, why couldn't other recipes give nutrients to the skin?

Since you bring up "silver in toothpaste" after experiencing the type of oral health from both commercial products compared to simple distilled water with colliodal silver in it, post buckle bar damage... Well, I just hope your armchair is REALLY comfy! But This isn't an oral health thread.

 

[Ekuzo]

Disregarding superfats and post trace a dditives that aren't bound up by saponification... If one recipe can "strip" nutrients from the skin, why couldn't other recipes give nutrients to the skin?

Online calculators disregard superfat (among other things), that's why I said to always take what they say with a grain of salt. After trace, only a small % of the saponification process is complete - adding stuff after trace doesn't mean it will be safe and unaltered once the soap is ready, or even some time after the cut and into the curing. Even stuff added after HP cook is not safe - ions move around and switch places within the seemingly solid structure of the bar, fragrances morph, herbal additives oxidize, soap scum forms if the bar gets in touch with hard water, etc., etc... Even if a good % of the additives do survive unchanged (highly unlikely), their amount will still be too little to have visible therapeutic effect, since soap is a wash-off product. Putting EO's or any additive in soap can't be further away from topical application when it comes to results.

Since you bring up "silver in toothpaste" after experiencing the type of oral health from both commercial products compared to simple distilled water with colliodal silver in it, post buckle bar damage... Well, I just hope your armchair is REALLY comfy! But This isn't an oral health thread.

Thank you for being concerned about me, I'm touched! Most of the cleaning effect when you brush your teeth comes from, well, the brush itself. At this point, you can easily brush with plain water and it will still be better than the store bought fluoride-based toothpaste, because it's the worst you can get with your money. Or, you can ask Jack where you can purchase some pixie dust and be like 'Yay, I found my panacea'

 

[squidstings]

Online calculators disregard superfat (among other things), that's why I said to always take what they say with a grain of salt. After trace, only a small % of the saponification process is complete - adding stuff after trace doesn't mean it will be safe and unaltered once the soap is ready, or even some time after the cut and into the curing. Even stuff added after HP cook is not safe - ions move around and switch places within the seemingly solid structure of the bar, fragrances morph, herbal additives oxidize, soap scum forms if the bar gets in touch with hard water, etc., etc... Even if a good % of the additives do survive unchanged (highly unlikely), their amount will still be too little to have visible therapeutic effect, since soap is a wash-off product. Putting EO's or any additive in soap can't be further away from topical application when it comes to results.

As with the "polar" issues, what I've witnessed first hand contradicts with most of what I've been told should happen. I only use the charts as a loose guide anyways. The MCT oil was chosen purely for a little more hardness/durability. More than one grain of salt in my considerations lol

It's pretty clear that nourishment/medications can be absorbed through the skin. The human body is a 24/7 cradle to grave chemical process. Our simple cells can pick atoms off molecules at will. Something we complicated/intelligent beings haven't figured out yet. Different oils have different atomic structures to interact with the cellular processes. Going back to disregarding superfat and additives, The simple fact that soaps made with different oils affect the skin differently is proof that our dermal cell processes can be affected through soap. If something can be taken, something can be given. In my observations, most, if not all, things have functionality in both directions.

I agree that not all the superfat/additives are "safe", devaluing the total additives somewhat, however, are you suggesting that none of it will be available for the living cells to process?

Thank you for being concerned about me, I'm touched! Most of the cleaning effect when you brush your teeth comes from, well, the brush itself. At this point, you can easily brush with plain water and it will still be better than the store bought fluoride-based toothpaste, because it's the worst you can get with your money. Or, you can ask Jack where you can purchase some pixie dust and be like 'Yay, I found my panacea'

When I grew up it was "sugar". Now it's the "bacteria" that feed of sugar. Where would the dental industry be if kids were taught a simple alkaline water rinse? Neanderthals didn't pop into existence with toothbrushes and dental schools. But Colloidal Silver was the anti-biotic/viral (per the FDA, and centuries of documented history) before our modern, super-bug causing wonders.

Thing about placebos.. they get people cured. Even if just the power of the mind... placebo inclusion does trigger a healing result.

 

[Ekuzo]

As with the "polar" issues, what I've witnessed first hand contradicts with most of what I've been told should happen. I only use the charts as a loose guide anyways. The MCT oil was chosen purely for a little more hardness/durability. More than one grain of salt in my considerations lol

It's pretty clear that nourishment/medications can be absorbed through the skin. The human body is a 24/7 cradle to grave chemical process. Our simple cells can pick atoms off molecules at will. Something we complicated/intelligent beings haven't figured out yet. Different oils have different atomic structures to interact with the cellular processes. Going back to disregarding superfat and additives, The simple fact that soaps made with different oils affect the skin differently is proof that our dermal cell processes can be affected through soap. If something can be taken, something can be given. In my observations, most, if not all, things have functionality in both directions.

I agree that not all the superfat/additives are "safe", devaluing the total additives somewhat, however, are you suggesting that none of it will be available for the living cells to process?



When I grew up it was "sugar". Now it's the "bacteria" that feed of sugar. Where would the dental industry be if kids were taught a simple alkaline water rinse? Neanderthals didn't pop into existence with toothbrushes and dental schools. But Colloidal Silver was the anti-biotic/viral (per the FDA, and centuries of documented history) before our modern, super-bug causing wonders.

Thing about placebos.. they get people cured. Even if just the power of the mind... placebo inclusion does trigger a healing result.

Different fatty acids result in different soap qualities (as they make different salts through the process), and our skin reacts to them differently. We get a different feel from this soap and that soap, some of us notice that difference better and some don't see it much - it's subjective, but the difference is there, even if minimal in some cases (drinking game: take a shot every time I say different, difference or differently).

Soap (by definition) cleans stuff that's not supposed to be there when dissolved (the additives in it included). Whatever goodies are left after saponification and curing, they get washed away along with any dirt (they don't even have the chance of leaving the lather).

Let's say you want to feel the effect of the additives on your skin, and let's say most of them survive saponification (hypothetically in an ideal case, for the sake of the conversation). There are 2 options:

1) You put big enough amounts of the additives which ruins the soap and the bar is not even stable anymore. You end up with a soft, mushy mess with cleaning capabilities way below expected - not a functional bar anymore;

2) You lather the soap and leave it there for some time, hoping that the additives will get properly absorbed by your skin by being in contact for long enough. The result is that you get a rash with the soap burning your skin and nothing gets absorbed, since nothing leaves the lather.

In both cases the result will not be the desirable one, even if the methods are combined. The proper way is to use a lotion/balm that contains the additives, or to get a massage with properly diluted EO's. That way an effect should be present, whatever it is.


As for the placebo effect - autosuggestion is a powerful tool. Manufacturers are abusing any idea that can bring a lot of money. Use toothpaste with silver if that works for you - I wouldn't. I would instead go for something more affordable and easier to obtain, not that gimmicky - there are options. Even if silver does have antibacterial features, is it worth it being in toothpaste? When you can have lye based dental soap or herbal toothpaste?

 

[squidstings]

Different fatty acids result in different soap qualities (as they make different salts through the process), and our skin reacts to them differently.

Exactly.

We get a different feel from this soap and that soap, some of us notice that difference better and some don't see it much - it's subjective, but the difference is there, even if minimal in some cases (drinking game: take a shot every time I say different, difference or differently).

There is a lot more credibility behind the micro dosing theories recently. Not sure yet myself. Don't think we know enough to start controlling the balance.

Soap (by definition) cleans stuff that's not supposed to be there when dissolved (the additives in it included). Whatever goodies are left after saponification and curing, they get washed away along with any dirt (they don't even have the chance of leaving the lather).

Let's say you want to feel the effect of the additives on your skin, and let's say most of them survive saponification (hypothetically in an ideal case, for the sake of the conversation). There are 2 options:

1) You put big enough amounts of the additives which ruins the soap and the bar is not even stable anymore. You end up with a soft, mushy mess with cleaning capabilities way below expected - not a functional bar anymore;

2) You lather the soap and leave it there for some time, hoping that the additives will get properly absorbed by your skin by being in contact for long enough. The result is that you get a rash with the soap burning your skin and nothing gets absorbed, since nothing leaves the lather.

In both cases the result will not be the desirable one, even if the methods are combined. The proper way is to use a lotion/balm that contains the additives, or to get a massage with properly diluted EO's. That way an effect should be present, whatever it is.

Now I'm going to focus on the superfat and additives. a very small portion of the recipe. Now go even smaller to the acutual amount that's in contact with the skin during a wash. That's why I mentioned nano-dosing.

I disagree with throwing greater amounts of concentrates into a localized area of the 24/7 cradle to grave chemistry process, beyond a short term healing boost. I feed and maintain my skin through my diet. I don't use this soap every day.

So I never even considered trying your methods. Logical as they are, they just don't match my experiences. Although it cleans fine, I do try to use it on clean skin.

My first bar, which had colliodal copper in it was a melty mess after a few days. I have seen one post where someone actually tried it and got the same results. That was my first batch, so 1 other first hand report doesn't quite solidify it for me.

As for the placebo effect - autosuggestion is a powerful tool. Manufacturers are abusing any idea that can bring a lot of money. Use toothpaste with silver if that works for you - I wouldn't. I would instead go for something more affordable and easier to obtain, not that gimmicky - there are options. Even if silver does have antibacterial features, is it worth it being in toothpaste? When you can have lye based dental soap or herbal toothpaste?

Yeah... Manufacturers... same choir!

I make my own. $40 worth of 99.999 silver (rounds. Wire's even cheaper but harder to find). 3 9V batteries and distilled water. Cleared up an infection years ago, now it's just a drop in distilled water as a rinse after baking soda in distilled. All VERY accessable!

Colloidal gold... Not so easy to make. Laser ablation might be the home option. Haven't tried yet. $65 for an 8oz bottle from amazon that probably had $1.24 worth of gold in it lol. accessable ish.

I live in Canada... I have to go to Amazon for my lye lol

FAR worth all my efforts so far. And I've already given it all away. Nothing left for me to gain.

 

[Ekuzo]

Exactly.



There is a lot more credibility behind the micro dosing theories recently. Not sure yet myself. Don't think we know enough to start controlling the balance.


Now I'm going to focus on the superfat and additives. a very small portion of the recipe. Now go even smaller to the acutual amount that's in contact with the skin during a wash. That's why I mentioned nano-dosing.

I disagree with throwing greater amounts of concentrates into a localized area of the 24/7 cradle to grave chemistry process, beyond a short term healing boost. I feed and maintain my skin through my diet. I don't use this soap every day.

So I never even considered trying your methods. Logical as they are, they just don't match my experiences. Although it cleans fine, I do try to use it on clean skin.

My first bar, which had colliodal copper in it was a melty mess after a few days. I have seen one post where someone actually tried it and got the same results. That was my first batch, so 1 other first hand report doesn't quite solidify it for me.

Yeah... Manufacturers... same choir!

I make my own. $40 worth of 99.999 silver (rounds. Wire's even cheaper but harder to find). 3 9V batteries and distilled water. Cleared up an infection years ago, now it's just a drop in distilled water as a rinse after baking soda in distilled. All VERY accessable!

Colloidal gold... Not so easy to make. Laser ablation might be the home option. Haven't tried yet. $65 for an 8oz bottle from amazon that probably had $1.24 worth of gold in it lol. accessable ish.

I live in Canada... I have to go to Amazon for my lye lol

FAR worth all my efforts so far. And I've already given it all away. Nothing left for me to gain.

That’s my side of things - nano doses shouldn't have a noticeable effect and I'm pretty sure the benefits you see are from your diet and could be achieved through other means as well (locally, higher concentration for short time, but longer than what the lather of the soap stays on for). If placebo works well in addition for you - hey, I'm fine with that, you can do whatever makes you happy.

Now, I see a fair point in saying soap with silver has antibacterial properties - killing at least some of the germs on the particular surface being washed with it. But that's it, it washes and goes away, doesn't get into the skin and doesn't have healing properties (I think we can agree this is the main topic we don't see eye to eye about). The same and even more can be achieved with any sort of disinfectant in liquid or gel form - with or without alcohol content, depending on your preference. Even antibacterial wet wipes. Much cheaper and easier to do (not everyone likes to spend money on at least relatively expensive metals and practices electrolysis at home). To me, adding those to products which don't need them is a gimmick for the sake of saying 'hey, it's there'. I don't think you mentioned that you sell (you said you give away), but if you did, soap with silver would be a solid gimmick, making for an interesting product - and that's it

 

[squidstings]

That’s my side of things - nano doses shouldn't have a noticeable effect and I'm pretty sure the benefits you see are from your diet and could be achieved through other means as well (locally, higher concentration for short time, but longer than what the lather of the soap stays on for). If placebo works well in addition for you - hey, I'm fine with that, you can do whatever makes you happy.

Agree to disagree, fair enough. However, my housemate did't change their diet and only washes hands while experiencing whole body benefits. That's the grass between our toes. I remember what your grass feels like, nott saying it's bad. Just never going back.

Now, I see a fair point in saying soap with silver has antibacterial properties - killing at least some of the germs on the particular surface being washed with it. But that's it, it washes and goes away, doesn't get into the skin and doesn't have healing properties (I think we can agree this is the main topic we don't see eye to eye about). The same and even more can be achieved with any sort of disinfectant in liquid or gel form - with or without alcohol content, depending on your preference. Even antibacterial wet wipes. Much cheaper and easier to do (not everyone likes to spend money on at least relatively expensive metals and practices electrolysis at home). To me, adding those to products which don't need them is a gimmick for the sake of saying 'hey, it's there'. I don't think you mentioned that you sell (you said you give away), but if you did, soap with silver would be a solid gimmick, making for an interesting product - and that's it

Just an FYI.. that $40CAD i spent on 2 silver ounce rounds (60 now) will outlast my great grandchildren.

I don't "sell" anything. It's a gift. Those who need it, will find it. Those who want it, will use it. To the rest... all the best

 

[Ekuzo]

Agree to disagree, fair enough. However, my housemate did't change their diet and only washes hands while experiencing whole body benefits. That's the grass between our toes. I remember what your grass feels like, nott saying it's bad. Just never going back.



Just an FYI.. that $40CAD i spent on 2 silver ounce rounds (60 now) will outlast my great grandchildren.

I don't "sell" anything. It's a gift. Those who need it, will find it. Those who want it, will use it. To the rest... all the best

I think we said everything we had to say on the topic, and I've got nothing else to add. The thread has become an interesting read after all