100% beef tallow soap

[Mobjack Bay]

@contrinokathy Lots of bubbles! Do the bars bubble that well in use? What is your usage rates for the additives? I added sugar at 1% TFW which equates to a bit less than 1 tsp ppo.

 

[DeeAnna]

I made a 85%/15% tallow/neem oil...

I'm using the last of a batch of neem-lard soap. I adapted my usual lard recipe by replacing some of the lard with neem, since the fatty acid profile of neem is similar to that of lard. The neem content in the soap is 20% of the total fats, but I think anywhere from 15% to 20% would be good. This batch also was a dual lye soap -- 5% KOH.

I really like the extra lather that the neem contributes to the soap compared with the lard-only version. The bar I'm using is about 3 years old now and the neem scent, combined with a lime fragrance oil, has mellowed into a pleasant lime-y black tea aroma.

 

[contrinokathy]

@contrinokathy Lots of bubbles! Do the bars bubble that well in use? What is your usage rates for the additives? I added sugar at 1% TFW which equates to a bit less than 1 tsp ppo.

I use 1% ppo sugar and salt plus honey, beer or pine rosin powder. And 3% citric acid because we are a hard water area.
The bars are amazing in use and for the olive oil soap the lather is not slimy at all. I can unmold in half a day

 

[Mobjack Bay]

@DeeAnna by any chance, did you ever find out if former member Sistrum tried more than 10% NaOH in their cp soap? Is there anything other than the initial hardness of the soap that I should think about before I try a higher percentage of KOH? My experience using KOH is limited and I haven’t read many shave or cream soap threads where I might gain some insights. I do realize that the soap as is should get better with the cure. I‘ve found the threads about using salt with high KOH, but I’m trying to keep additives to a minimum for the initial tests.

 

[contrinokathy]

@DeeAnna by any chance, did you ever find out if former member Sistrum tried more than 10% NaOH in their cp soap? Is there anything other than the initial hardness of the soap that I should think about before I try a higher percentage of KOH? My experience using KOH is limited and I haven’t read many shave or cream soap threads where I might gain some insights. I do realize that the soap as is should get better with the cure. I‘ve found the threads about using salt with high KOH, but I’m trying to keep additives to a minimum for the initial tests.

I make dual lye shave soap 40/60 potassium/sodium. It isn’t soft at all.

 

[Mobjack Bay]

I make dual lye shave soap 40/60 potassium/sodium. It isn’t soft at all.

perfect! thanks for letting me know.

 

[Vicki C]

@Vicki C Did you make the 100% tallow soap? I’ve been testing mine, which I made with 10% KOH. It’s okay, but it’s not what I would call lovely. The bar will make lather if I work at it, but even with dual lye it’s a very hard bar of soap. In use the bar is so slick that it’s hard to hold on to, which is not at all what I expected. It’s like hard shiny plastic coated with a film of soap. I wonder if my hard water is a contributing factor? Maybe I need to up the KOH for the next batch?

eta: I’ve been scouring the threads and have seen cautions about exceeding 10% KOH, but based on the firmness of the soap, I think I would have better results using 13-15%. The KOH I’m using has been fine in other soap recipes with the purity set at 90%. On the other hand, I just recently bought a new box of tallow and noticed right away that it’s a bit harder than the tallow I was using over the last year. Perhaps that’s a contributing factor and I’m ending up with less than the calculated SF, which was set at 3% for the initial batch. I could make two small test batches, one with 15% KOH and 3% SF and one with 10% KOH and 6% SF for comparison. If anyone has any other ideas or suggestions, please let me know. I will report back!

I did make it - I used 10% KOH, and added some sorbitol. 5% superfat. It came out… ok. I think. I have already given it to the client, but it did a weird thing where the edges became translucent - and the middle stayed white. Sort of like the opposite of a partial gel, but I am pretty sure it went through gel. I wonder if it overheated, but I have no ideal what the mechanism would be. The client was relaxed about it, luckily. This bar was from the middle of the loaf - on the ends it was much more pronounced.

 

[Mobjack Bay]

I did make it - I used 10% KOH, and added some sorbitol. 5% superfat. It came out… ok. I think. I have already given it to the client, but it did a weird thing where the edges became translucent - and the middle stayed white. Sort of like the opposite of a partial gel, but I am pretty sure it went through gel. I wonder if it overheated, but I have no ideal what the mechanism would be. The client was relaxed about it, luckily. This bar was from the middle of the loaf - on the ends it was much more pronounced.

View attachment 73712

It looks good. Strange about the edges. Was there any heat rash on the sides? How was the lather?

 

[AliOop]

it did a weird thing where the edges became translucent - and the middle stayed white. Sort of like the opposite of a partial gel, but I am pretty sure it went through gel. I wonder if it overheated, but I have no ideal what the mechanism would be.

I've had that happen with 100% CO, 100% tallow, and 100% lard bars but not with 100% OO soap.

My theory is that it is caused by some combination of saturated fat + heat, but I have no scientific proof or even evidence to cite.

 

[Vicki C]

It looks good. Strange about the edges. Was there any heat rash on the sides? How was the lather?

No heat rash - didn’t test the lather. Should have.

 

[Mobjack Bay]

I've had that happen with 100% CO, 100% tallow, and 100% lard bars but not with 100% OO soap.

My theory is that it is caused by some combination of saturated fat + heat, but I have no scientific proof or even evidence to cite.

Very interesting… I made a 40% GW 415 soy wax/20% coconut/10% cocoa butter soap about a month ago and the soap is noticeably translucent.

 

[AliOop]

Very interesting… I made a 40% GW 415 soy wax/20% coconut/10% cocoa butter soap about a month ago and the soap is noticeably translucent.

pics or it didn't happen.

 

[Mobjack Bay]

pics or it didn't happen.

No pics to date, but that’s a good idea.

 

[DeeAnna]

@DeeAnna by any chance, did you ever find out if former member Sistrum tried more than 10% NaOH in their cp soap?...

I don't think Sistrum ever said anything about using more than 10% KOH. I wish I'd been more interested in Sistrum's advice at the time they shared it -- I would have liked to follow up on that. They were actively posting in this forum for only a short time, so I missed the opportunity.

I have a recollection of someone trying 20% KOH in CP bar soap and they said it did contribute to greater softness in their soap, but this is just a memory -- I don't have any sources to support that recollection.

I don't think most soap makers use a penetrometer to measure the hardness of their soap, so most people's test of softness vs. hardness (including mine) is going to be a rather subjective test.

 

[Mobjack Bay]

I don't think Sistrum ever said anything about using more than 10% KOH. I wish I'd been more interested in Sistrum's advice at the time they shared it -- I would have liked to follow up on that. They were actively posting in this forum for only a short time, so I missed the opportunity.

I have a recollection of someone trying 20% KOH in CP bar soap and they said it did contribute to greater softness in their soap, but this is just a memory -- I don't have any sources to support that recollection.

I don't think most soap makers use a penetrometer to measure the hardness of their soap, so most people's test of softness vs. hardness (including mine) is going to be a rather subjective test.

When I was still doing research, I used a vane penetrometer (actually, it was a torvane) as one way to estimate marine sediment erodibility. The penetrometer torvane is probably still around gathering dust in some cabinet, but it’s the wrong design to work in soap, plus I seem to recall that it was made of brass. I totally agree about softness being a relative thing and the 100% tallow soap I made is by far the new end member for hardness on my scale.

edited for clarity

 

[Shelley D]

I do love this forum ~ it always gives me more information to research!
I know my hubby has me on a soaping hiatus buuuut . . . I'm already thinking about my next soap trials (don't tell him!)
I really want to try either/or/or both a tallow and a lard recipe, but i had no idea it should contain dual lye so my research continues

 

[dibbles]

I really want to try either/or/or both a tallow and a lard recipe, but i had no idea it should containdual lye

I think the use of dual lye is because of the high percentage of tallow (100%). If you are wanting to try this, the dual lye is to help with the solubility/lather of the finished soap. In a more balanced recipe dual lye isn't necessary. I'm not sure if you haven't tried using lard or tallow at all, or just want to try it at 100%. And now I need more coffee

 

[Shelley D]

I think the use of dual lye is because of the high percentage of tallow (100%). If you are wanting to try this, the dual lye is to help with the solubility/lather of the finished soap. In a more balanced recipe dual lye isn't necessary. I'm not sure if you haven't tried using lard or tallow at all, or just want to try it at 100%. And now I need more coffee

Good point, and honestly I am curious about 100% tallow or lard but also maybe a 50/50 (not sure what I want the other 50% to be yet), and also a lower %, maybe 20-30% tallow or lard. I have had people suggest it on account of my skin allergies and sensitivities, and the recommendations usually go like, "you should just use good old fashioned lye soap" or "lye and fat soap" or "fat soap", but until I joined the soaping community I never knew anyone who made it so I had no clue how to go about it.

 

[AliOop]

@Shelley D can you use coconut oil at all? If yes, and unless you are itching to use dual lye, putting some coconut oil into the recipe is an easier way to boost solubility and lather. Of course, it's not either/or - you could use both. But if a bit of coconut oil isn't too hard on your skin, you might try:

75% tallow, lard, or combination of the two
20% coconut oil
5% castor

To help cut down on soap scum that is more prevalent in high-animal-fat soaps, I use a low SF and a chelator. Sodium citrate is my chelator of choice, but you could use EDTA, sodium gluconate, etc.

 

[Shelley D]

@Shelley D can you use coconut oil at all? If yes, and unless you are itching to use dual lye, putting some coconut oil into the recipe is an easier way to boost solubility and lather. Of course, it's not either/or - you could use both. But if a bit of coconut oil isn't too hard on your skin, you might try:

75% tallow, lard, or combination of the two
20% coconut oil
5% castor

To help cut down on soap scum that is more prevalent in high-animal-fat soaps, I use a low SF and a chelator (sodium citrate is my chelator of choice, but you could use EDTA, sodium gluconate, etc).

I can use coconut at about 20% or lower so I will bookmark this for trial later as a starting point Thank you for the suggestion!

*Edit to add: no really itching to do the dual lye thing, just considering it since this was the first time I really noticed that it was done