Shaving Soap - Want to Make It?

After a whole lot more work than you think it would be, I am finally done with the articles I started writing several months ago. I had a lot of help and it definitely would not have been possible without everyone here. I wanted to release these here first - because most of my help came from this forum, and because most of you are experienced enough to catch anything that I screwed up after the editors blessed it.

These articles are intended to take a non-soaper who wants to make shave soap (like a few of us were) through their first batch. Here they are:

1. The Beginning
2. Sourcing Tools and Ingredients
3. Process

The website is not fully "gelled" yet, but it will get there. This was the important part. I hope you will enjoy reading as much as I enjoy learning and sharing it.

Excellent timing! I'm just about to embark on researching shave soap as my husband is pestering me to try!

Sonya-m said:

Excellent timing! I'm just about to embark on researching shave soap as my husband is pestering me to try!

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Glad to hear it Sonya! Of course the sourcing links may not be entirely appropriate, but at least it will give you a starting point.

And of course if you (anyone) see things which are not clear, wrong, etc., tell me!

I've had very quick read through but intend to read it thoroughly. One thing I already now know is that my stearic acid isn't just stearic, it's the last one you talk about - 67701-03-5

Sonya-m said:

I've had very quick read through but intend to read it thoroughly. One thing I already now know is that my stearic acid isn't just stearic, it's the last one you talk about - 67701-03-5

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If that's what I had, I'd certainly not run out and replace it. Make a batch and see how you like it. The SAP values between the two are so close as to be within the margin of error I'd think.

Fantastic article! Thanks for sharing it! I'll be trying it out soon.

I love your article and it has inspired me to finally try making a shaving soap!

Awesome, so glad. We always need more folks making it. Be sure to tell us how it goes.

Lee, Fantastic job!

I skimmed Parts I and II (I'm at work), but look forward to reading more closely in the peace and quite of home. Thank you for taking the time to write that up.

LBussy said:

After a whole lot more work than you think it would be, I am finally done with the articles I started writing several months ago. I had a lot of help and it definitely would not have been possible without everyone here. I wanted to release these here first - because most of my help came from this forum, and because most of you are experiences enough to catch anything that I screwed up after the editors blessed it.

These articles are intended to take a non-soaper who wants to make shave soap (like a few of us were) through their first batch. Here they are:

1. The Beginning
2. Sourcing Tools and Ingredients
3. Process

The website is not fully "gelled" yet, but it will get there. This was the important part. I hope you will enjoy reading as much as I enjoy learning and sharing it.

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I have been making my own shaving soap for some time, as I use a straight razor or De razor and all the recipes I have seen use at least some Clay, (bentonite) for the "slip" you need when shaving................this recipe doesn't need it?

You can add 10-15% glycerine instead. Many shavers won't use a soap with clay because of possible damage to the blades.

Many "shaving soap" recipes floating about are just bar soap with clay, which muddies the water, so to speak

hozhed said:

I have been making my own shaving soap for some time, as I use a straight razor or De razor and all the recipes I have seen use at least some Clay, (bentonite) for the "slip" you need when shaving................this recipe doesn't need it?

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It's dirt, it's an abrasive no matter how you look at it, and it does not add slip to an otherwise good soap. If you have a good shave soap you don't need clay. As an additive to a bar soap people are not likely to be as critical of a user as someone who is sliding a death-dealing implement past their windpipe.

If you hone your own razor, consider that clay particle size is considerably larger than the typical strop compounds.

Make it, see what you think.

LBussy said:

It's dirt, it's an abrasive no matter how you look at it, and it does not add slip to an otherwise good soap. If you have a good shave soap you don't need clay. As an additive to a bar soap people are not likely to be as critical of a user as someone who is sliding a death-dealing implement past their windpipe.

If you hone your own razor, consider that clay particle size is considerably larger than the typical strop compounds.

Make it, see what you think.

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"someone who is sliding a death-dealing implement past their windpipe. "
:grin: Too funny. it just takes a bit of practice, LB. Also, the small particle of bentonite, and amounts used I would think would not bother a razor, leastwise, I have not noticed it. I am going to try some soap with the glycerin and see how it works out of curiosity. Maybe a recipe that I can use some of my honey in it.

hozhed said:

:grin: Too funny. it just takes a bit of practice, LB. Also, the small particle of bentonite, and amounts used I would think would not bother a razor, leastwise, I have not noticed it. I am going to try some soap with the glycerin and see how it works out of curiosity.

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I shave every morning with one of my death-dealing instruments so I hear ya.

Bentonite (any clay) does no good and potentially some harm. Make this and see what you think. There are a lot of folks who have tried bar soap + clay vs. shaving soap and the results speak for themselves.

IF a person is predisposed to not using enough water then they might not get the benefits - glycerine needs water, but once hydrated it is a far superior shave.

hozhed said:

Maybe a recipe that I can use some of my honey in it.

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I missed that the first time. I LOVE me some hunney!

hozhed said:

I am going to try some soap with the glycerin and see how it works out of curiosity.

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Just adding glycerin to any recipe you have now doesn't necessarily achieve the same thing by the way - the recipe I shared was designed to work as-is. If you were thinking of taking your recipe and subbing glycerin for clay I have no reference for how that will work.

LBussy said:

It's dirt, it's an abrasive no matter how you look at it, and it does not add slip to an otherwise good soap. If you have a good shave soap you don't need clay. As an additive to a bar soap people are not likely to be as critical of a user as someone who is sliding a death-dealing implement past their windpipe.

If you hone your own razor, consider that clay particle size is considerably larger than the typical strop compounds.

Make it, see what you think.

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I completely agree. Im a noob to this site and have been using a straight for 5 years. The shave soaps I made a few years ago that called for clay were terrible. No cushion, no lasting lather, just slick due to expensive mud:wink:.

Ive never purchased a decent shaving soap that had clay in the it. YMMV...... but it seems to me that clay is a way to bypass truly tweaking and perfecting the minutiae of quality soap making.

I'm just a bit confused about the stearic acid in part 2, CAS 57-11-4 which is solely octadecanoic acid and you provide a link to a company who sells it. If you follow that link and check the MSDS for that product its composition is Hexadecanoic Acid 59%, Octadecanoic Acid 40%, Tetradecanoic Acid 1% is this correct. Excellent articles by the way.

nix said:

I'm just a bit confused about the stearic acid in part 2, CAS 57-11-4 which is solely octadecanoic acid and you provide a link to a company who sells it. If you follow that link and check the MSDS for that product its composition is Hexadecanoic Acid 59%, Octadecanoic Acid 40%, Tetradecanoic Acid 1% is this correct. Excellent articles by the way.

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Interesting ... I'll have to shoot them a note. I've not busted into my new bag from them, I would be disappointed if the CAS number (which should always be authoritative) was wrong.

LBussy said:

nix said:

I'm just a bit confused about the stearic acid in part 2, CAS 57-11-4 which is solely octadecanoic acid and you provide a link to a company who sells it. If you follow that link and check the MSDS for that product its composition is Hexadecanoic Acid 59%, Octadecanoic Acid 40%, Tetradecanoic Acid 1% is this correct. Excellent articles by the way.

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Interesting ... I'll have to shoot them a note. I've not busted into my new bag from them, I would be disappointed if the CAS number (which should always be authoritative) was wrong.

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I sent an email last night. Since an MSDS is created by the supplier I think (hope) that she simply got over-zealous with a cut and paste during edits. If you look the CAS for SA is included in the ingredients list of the MSDS for SA making it quite a circular reference. :shifty:

LBussy said:

LBussy said:

nix said:

I'm just a bit confused about the stearic acid in part 2, CAS 57-11-4 which is solely octadecanoic acid and you provide a link to a company who sells it. If you follow that link and check the MSDS for that product its composition is Hexadecanoic Acid 59%, Octadecanoic Acid 40%, Tetradecanoic Acid 1% is this correct. Excellent articles by the way.

Click to expand...

Interesting ... I'll have to shoot them a note. I've not busted into my new bag from them, I would be disappointed if the CAS number (which should always be authoritative) was wrong.

Click to expand...

I sent an email last night. Since an MSDS is created by the supplier I think (hope) that she simply got over-zealous with a cut and paste during edits. If you look the CAS for SA is included in the ingredients list of the MSDS for SA making it quite a circular reference. :shifty:

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Okay Jen emailed me back and provided more information. The product at Lotioncrafter isn't really just stearic acid - EMERSOL® 7036 is the supplier's name and they do sell it as 57-11-4 (which I find strange). It is a mix of Palmitic, stearic and others (in that order of predominance). Looking at the Emersol product line, it appears that the EMERSOL® 153 NF would be a more pure stearic at >= 95%. This product bears the same CAS number which I must admit confuses me greatly. I want to be clear I don't think Jen was being disingenuous, and she did provide the MSDS which I should have read first.

So I must admit I am at a little bit of a loss - I created the original recipe with stearic acid but the original supplier does not have any available. If we have a theoretic 100% pure stearic acid vs a theoretic pure "other" product at 55/45% and compare them we find the following:

Molar mass of Stearic Acid: 284.48
Molar mass of mixed acid: 271.854
Difference: 4.4%

My recipe uses 53% stearic acid so that's an effective difference of 2.35%. If the recipe was figured for real stearic acid, then using this mix would result in a lye surplus of 2.35% applied to the recipe which was 5% lye discount anyway - so the effect is a soap that's only 2.65% superfat.

Now then a Real Good Question™ would be: Was the original SAP value used to calculate the recipe right?

By molar ratios, pure SA's SAP value would be 0.141, SoapCalc has it as 0.141 so this is correct. The mixed acid product would have an SAP of 0.147. So, the way I figured my recipe stands but if someone uses the mix it will result in a lower superfat than originally planned.

AND ... I have "stearic acid" that's just perfectly fine for most things but is not how I originally planned the recipe. What to do? Anyone know where I can get actual Stearic Acid?

Those are my problems. The casual observer may be wondering what they are to do if they want to make this. Well, I did two test batches this evening, one from my dwindling supply of real SA and one from the new "SA" (adjusted back to a 5% SF). In a week I will try them blindly (I'll have the darling wife help) and see what I think of the difference, if any. Will two carbon atoms and two hydrogen atoms amake a difference? Stay tuned!

Okay Jen emailed me back and provided more information. The product at Lotioncrafter isn't really just stearic acid - EMERSOL® 7036 is the supplier's name and they do sell it as 57-11-4 (which I find strange). It is a mix of Palmitic, stearic and others (in that order of predominance). Looking at the Emersol product line, it appears that the EMERSOL® 153 NF would be a more pure stearic at >= 95%. This product bears the same CAS number which I must admit confuses me greatly. I want to be clear I don't think Jen was being disingenuous, and she did provide the MSDS which I should have read first.

So I must admit I am at a little bit of a loss - I created the original recipe with stearic acid but the original supplier does not have any available. If we have a theoretic 100% pure stearic acid vs a theoretic pure "other" product at 55/45% and compare them we find the following:

Molar mass of Stearic Acid: 284.48
Molar mass of mixed acid: 271.854
Difference: 4.4%

My recipe uses 53% stearic acid so that's an effective difference of 2.35%. If the recipe was figured for real stearic acid, then using this mix would result in a lye surplus of 2.35% applied to the recipe which was 5% lye discount anyway - so the effect is a soap that's only 2.65% superfat.

Now then a Real Good Question™ would be: Was the original SAP value used to calculate the recipe right?

By molar ratios, pure SA's SAP value would be 0.141, SoapCalc has it as 0.141 so this is correct. The mixed acid product would have an SAP of 0.147. So, the way I figured my recipe stands but if someone uses the mix it will result in a lower superfat than originally planned.

AND ... I have "stearic acid" that's just perfectly fine for most things but is not how I originally planned the recipe. What to do? Anyone know where I can get actual Stearic Acid?

Those are my problems. The casual observer may be wondering what they are to do if they want to make this. Well, I did two test batches this evening, one from my dwindling supply of real SA and one from the new "SA" (adjusted back to a 5% SF). In a week I will try them blindly (I'll have the darling wife help) and see what I think of the difference, if any. Will two carbon atoms and two hydrogen atoms amake a difference? Stay tuned!

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Stearic acid cas 57-11-4 seams to be a broad description of stearic acid products with multiple composition / grades / purity. Suppliers are not clear in their descriptions at all about what you are going to purchase, you do need to be checking product descriptions / MSDS for composition (high stearic content), molar mass 284.48, melting point 69'C.

The difference between a stearic acid mix (60% palmitic / 40% stearic) and a 96% pure stearic acid are its koh sap value and the qualities it gives to the final soap.

koh sap 60/40 mix = 0.211

koh sap 96% stearic = 0.198

6.36% difference

If you make no changes to your recipe and replace the 96% pure stearic acid with the 60/40 mix, given that stearic acid makes up 53% of your recipe this would mean that there would be a 3.37% difference (53% of 6.36) in the discount, because 60/40 mix needs more lye to saponify you will be left with more unsaponified 60/40 mix, i think a discount of around 8.37% (higher discounts in a shaving soap reduces lather). The final qualities of the soap must be effected because you have gone from 96% stearic to only 40% which is a 82.35% difference, i'm sure the main reason stearic acid is used in shaving soaps is for lather stability, i don't know if the 60% palmitic acid in the 60/40 mix will help this or not ?

After some searching i found a supplier of 98% and 95% stearic acid in the uk probably no help as your in the us

http://www.sigmaaldrich.com/catalog/search?term=57-11-4&interface=CAS%20No.&N=0&mode=match%20partialmax&lang=en®ion=GB&focus=product

nix said:

Stearic acid cas 57-11-4 seams to be a broad description of stearic acid products with multiple composition / grades / purity.

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Except it is not meant to be. Have a look at the National Institute of Standards and Technology:

http://webbook.nist.gov/cgi/cbook.cgi?ID=57-11-4

In addition, CAS.org says:

A CAS Registry Number, however, is unique and specific to only one substance regardless of how many other ways the substance can be described.

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So the labeling is wrong no matter how you look at it. I'm just surprised nobody has said anything so far. I suppose it's because the primary use of that product for that supplier is in cosmetics where I further suppose it makes absolutely no difference. (Leaving aside for a moment that shaving soap is a cosmetic)

and replace the 96% pure stearic acid with the 60/40 mix, given that stearic acid makes up 53% of your recipe this would mean that there would be a 3.37% difference (53% of 6.36) in the discount,

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Close.

The ratio is 55/45. If you look at the MSDS it says minimum 41% stearic and 50% palmitic. Extrapolated to 100% that's 55/45 and my numbers are correct. I have them for NaOH of course but the percentages are correct for that assumption. "Regular" stearic was figured at 100%, as are all other references for SAP values. One has to go ahead and account for impurities the same as we do for lye.

After some searching i found a supplier of 98% and 95% stearic acid in the uk probably no help as your in the us

http://www.sigmaaldrich.com/catalog/search?term=57-11-4&interface=CAS%20No.&N=0&mode=match%20partialmax&lang=en®ion=GB&focus=product

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Sigma Aldritch is a large supplier and in the US as well. At $66 for 1 KG (Kosher/Halal/Food Grade) and compared to the 5# of SA I bought for $18.75 from the other vendor, it's approximately 698% higher in price. If I buy 20 KG that difference drops down to "only" a 64% increase (if my before coffee math is correct).

Anyone want to do a group buy on a fiber container of SA? :razz:

I suspect, based on using soaps which do have a palm oil component, that the qualities will be similar between the two batches. Those have had a dense enough lather and losing the constituent oleic acid in palm by this being palmitic acid will get a little closer to what I was looking for in the shave soap.

The MSDS for the product you gave a link to is "Stearic acid NF" and on their web site that links to an MSDS for Emersol 7036 Vegetable Stearic Acid, NF, Food Grade, Koshe.

http://www.lotioncrafter.com/reference/msds_stearic_acid.pdf

If you check the composition its Hexadecanoic Acid 59%, Octadecanoic Acid 40%, Tetradecanoic Acid 1% its their in black and white. There is no need to extrapolate.

I am sorry but your figures are wrong.

As for price what can you expect, you have to pay for purity, and its you who want to use it. Most stearic acid sold for soap making is the 60% palmitic acid / 40% stearic acid, which i have used for several years and most discussions on this form and others about shaving soaps are based.