Problem not had before..excess oils.

jenneelk · Aug 30, 2013

I've had seperation once when I did a longer CPOP but that wasn't the case I don't think this time.

I have a recipe I've used time and again but changed out my 35% EVOO for high oleic sunflower for lighter color to test new dyes. Numbers are pretty much exact through soapcal so didn't expect any changes. My recipe is good and works well each time with EVOO. Possible the sunflower is the problem? Used it before it other recipes with no issue.

This one was my usual CPOP way and good this am.. Nice and firm out of mold but did notices sweating when removing from paper. When I cut oils pooled out from that top part an think from other areas since quite oily all over.

Oh and as you can see.. My color was a major bust. Have no idea why this one went so so wrong. 6 rainbow! colors beautiful at pour.. Not super bold but dark enough. Only had about 8 oz of white base and all other color. Now it's all yellow. :/
Fruit loops scent has browning but used a modifier that's worked before.
So sad.

jenneelk · Aug 30, 2013

Another shot of all the oils.

MKRainville · Aug 30, 2013

do you think you can rebatch it - maybe use it for embeds? Maybe it's not a loss cause. I love yellow. Maybe you can rebatch it into sunny soap balls

dagmar88 · Aug 30, 2013

Looks like it overheated...

jenneelk · Aug 30, 2013

I guess I could do imbeds.. I hate rebatch. :/
And I don't know how it overheated.. it did have goats milk but it was powdered and something I always use. Otherwise no additives and the FO checked out as good. Gah.. so sad. Smells so fun and fruity.

judymoody · Aug 30, 2013

That looks like separation. Your only recourse is to rebatch (using everything including the oozy liquid.) Use gloves, this will be very caustic.

It would be dangerous to use this soap as embeds or soap balls without rebatching it first.

Probably something other than your carrier oils is the culprit here. Perhaps your oven was set higher than you thought? From where did you buy your FO?

Moody Glenn · Aug 30, 2013

Hi Jenneelk! An interesting situation. I checked with some of my research books. For the oiliness and separation it is possible the soap batter was not stirred long enough for saponification to really react. You may have been more concerned about mixing the colors before actual trace began. Another 'theory' is your hard oils re-solidified and you developed "false trace" due to the cooling of your batter while preparing and mixing the colors. Sometimes, separation can be caused by fragrance oils that did not fully incorporate within the batter ...or by adding too much lye solution - but I am very sure you weighed everything well. Too many theories!

I did find that you may have added too much sunflower oil. One reference states that you should use a max of 20% or less. Adding too much can cause trace to slow way, way down and produce a very soft soap when unmolded.

As for the color - you mentioned you used a modifier to keep the FO from turning brown. Would this modifier also mess-up the colors? I don't know for I have never used it. Anyway, sorry for how the soap turned out for you. Hopefully we can get this sorted out and learn what happened and how not to have it happen again. :wink:

jenneelk · Aug 30, 2013

Thanks Moody!.. sounds like the amount of sunflower was likely the cause since I was at almost double that. Didn't realize that one had a max on it. Guess its live and learn. Should have never changed my recipe but was hoping to get color samples this way of the new dyes.
The superfat is always 8% on this recipe so wondering if I really need to rebatch it? I have maybe and ounce or two of oils that haven't absorbed back in from a 52 ounce oil batch.

Obsidian · Aug 30, 2013

I had a batch that heated up and separated like that. The oils didn't soak back so I rebatched it. Do it while the bars are still soft and has a higher amount of water in them.

CaraCara · Aug 30, 2013

I'm going to throw my 2 cents worth in and suggest that maybe it was the colorants. I had a beautiful batch that I'm sure as shoot was measured and blended properly, yet it went bust, extremely oily and soft where there were labcolours and nice and solid where only TD was used. Same batch, same soap, different turnout based on the colorant used. Is this the batch where you tried the Celestial Colors?

Ntsc · Aug 30, 2013

I had that happen once. It separated almost exactly like yours. The culprit in my case was something nobody else mentioned. The scent. Was this a new fragrance oil that you've never tried before?

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jenneelk · Aug 30, 2013

Yes.. the colors are not to be seen either. They have such a high regard here and other soap forums that I'm reluctant to think it was that and likely my mistake with high sunflower. :/ Still not sure why the colors did what they did though. in the pot they were nice still and seperate as they should have been. But after pour they blended a lot and then after about 10 min in oven all the beautiful colors on top i did in lines and swirled were mashed together and almost like the colors dropped if that makes sense?
Was magenta, aqua, yellow, orange, grass green and red.. and they made up 90% of the batch so def. should have stood out.

It's in the crock pot now with 6 ounces of milk. Oh.. and it reeks like ammonia? Is that a sign of something? Thought I recall hearing about ammonia for certain issues. Will have to do a search.

jenneelk · Aug 30, 2013

Ntsc said:
I had that happen once. It separated almost exactly like yours. The culprit in my case was something nobody else mentioned. The scent. Was this a new fragrance oil that you've never tried before?

Sent from my iPad using Soap Making

Yes but good reviews for it with CP on the site. It was fruity rings from natures garden.

Ntsc · Aug 30, 2013

I also bought fragrance oils from natures garden. Unless there are a lot of reviews, i usually take them with reservation. The thing you don't know is what oils were used to make the batch that got positive reviews.

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jenneelk · Aug 30, 2013

I re batched and love it.. Inside should be lovey as an in the pot rebatch but worried about it setting up.

ocean_soul · Aug 30, 2013

That is an impressively colorful rebatch!

jenneelk · Aug 30, 2013

I needed a bit of oil to replace lost oils so lightened with my white TD mix and then used celestial to do an in the pot color mix.

TVivian · Aug 30, 2013

Oh wow that looks awesome!!! So glad it turned out great!

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sistrum · Aug 30, 2013

I've never heard of sunflower oil doing this, and I've used it a lot. Even my 50% batch was fine. The reason some say not to go over 20% is because of the fatty acid profile and they worry about dos. Although that hasn't been a problem for me.

Not sure what caused it but I wouldn't give up the sunflower just because of this.

judymoody · Aug 30, 2013

sistrum said:
I've never heard of sunflower oil doing this, and I've used it a lot. Even my 50% batch was fine. The reason some say not to go over 20% is because of the fatty acid profile and they worry about dos. Although that hasn't been a problem for me.

Not sure what caused it but I wouldn't give up the sunflower just because of this.

I agree entirely with sistrum regarding sunflower oil. It would not cause separation. Either you didn't get to a true trace or your soap overheated. I checked the Soap Scent Review Board and the reviews there suggest that this fragrance does not heat, accelerate, or discolor so it is unlikely that it was the cause.

When there are oozing cavities like that, please do not wait for the oils to reabsorb and hope for the best. It's not going to happen because it's caustic lye, not a bit of fragrance. Did you do a zap test before you rebatched? I bet the result would have been unambiguous.

Safety rant over.

Your rebatch is one of the prettiest I've ever seen. I am super impressed.

Problem not had before..excess oils.

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