ZCS vs. VCS update

[Todd Ziegler]

I apologize for being absent on this topic for so long. I have not abandoned the forum but I have been dealing with post knee surgery problems.

As soon as I get a chance I will post pictures of the first batch of soap that I used the final ZCS formula in.. I think it has been around 8 months or so since I made the batch and I have zero discoloring.

I have also toyed with the formula a little bit and I have found that it works just fine for most FO's without the thiosulfate in the formula. However the thiosulfate seems to help with FO's that discolor soap and doesn't contain vanillin.

If anyone has any questions or comments please feel free to contact me. I am slowly getting back to soap making as my knees get better.

 

[John Harris]

Hi Todd! Good luck with your knee!

So, are you tempted to say that I could make a vanillin soap using just metabisulfate and I would be alright? What would be your recipe be if the thiosulfite were left out? (Also, if you use ounces to measure, could you specify fluid ounces verses weight ounces?)

Thanks in advance

 

[Todd Ziegler]

Hi Todd! Good luck with your knee!

So, are you tempted to say that I could make a vanillin soap using just metabisulfate and I would be alright? What would be your recipe be if the thiosulfite were left out? (Also, if you use ounces to measure, could you specify fluid ounces verses weight ounces?)

Thanks in advance

When I made some without the thiosulfate, I substituted the missing thiosulfate with 3/4 of it with water and a 1/4 metabisulfate by weight. I don't use a strict 1:1 with the FO. I base it on the amount of vanillin in the FO. If the FO has 9% vanillin and I'm using 2 ounce of the FO. I then add 9% of the 2 ounce by weight. So I add 0.18 ounces by weight of the ZCS. Mind you that is what I do but if you want to do 1:1 it will not cause any problems that I'm aware of.

 

[Todd Ziegler]

I poured this on 10-25-2020. I'm having trouble finding the original picture that I took when I cut it but the FO had 15% vanillin and untreated would discolor to a dark coffee brown. I said that there was no color change but after I put it under some LED lighting, I could see a slight tanning. Even so I consider this a successful test of the ZCS. When I looked at it a couple of months ago, it had not tanned this much. However it is 16 months old and still smells like cotton candy.

 

[dibbles]

Thank you for the update! I would say at 16 months, that is a success.

Best wishes for continued recovery.

 

[Todd Ziegler]

Thank you for the update! I would say at 16 months, that is a success.

Best wishes for continued recovery.

Thanks for the wishes.

I would like to know if anyone else has any older than a year with the ZCS?

 

[John Harris]

Looks great to me, Todd!

Tell me ... Did you subtract water from your lye solution to make up for the water of the ZCS?

 

[Todd Ziegler]

Looks great to me, Todd!

Tell me ... Did you subtract water from your lye solution to make up for the water of the ZCS?

I do not. The amount of water in the ZCS is not enough to effect the outcome of your soap.

 

[TheGecko]

When I made some without the thiosulfate, I substituted the missing thiosulfate with 3/4 of it with water and a 1/4 metabisulfate by weight. I don't use a strict 1:1 with the FO. I base it on the amount of vanillin in the FO. If the FO has 9% vanillin and I'm using 2 ounce of the FO. I then add 9% of the 2 ounce by weight. So I add 0.18 ounces by weight of the ZCS. Mind you that is what I do but if you want to do 1:1 it will not cause any problems that I'm aware of.

Well darn…I was using it 1:1, but didn’t have any issues.

I only have soap that is maybe 6 months and 3 months. Both still look good.

 

[Todd Ziegler]

Well darn…I was using it 1:1, but didn’t have any issues.

I only have soap that is maybe 6 months and 3 months. Both still look good.

I think 1:1 is a safe way to use it and it guarantees that you want have any issues with discoloring. Most of the FO that I use have a very small percentage of vanillin and usually it only causes a slight discoloration of the soap, which enables you to use less ZCS. However I do recommend 1:1 for FO's high in vanillin or ones that are guaranteed to discolor.

 

[TheGecko]

I think 1:1 is a safe way to use it and it guarantees that you want have any issues with discoloring. Most of the FO that I use have a very small percentage of vanillin and usually it only causes a slight discoloration of the soap, which enables you to use less ZCS. However I do recommend 1:1 for FO's high in vanillin or ones that are guaranteed to discolor.

Autumn Harvest discolored to a very dark brown, but with your ZVSC, it was white. And three months later it’s still white. I’ll have to fine the Ancient Sedona that I did about six months ago and update the picture.

 

[Todd Ziegler]

Autumn Harvest discolored to a very dark brown, but with your ZVSC, it was white. And three months later it’s still white. I’ll have to fine the Ancient Sedona that I did about six months ago and update the picture.

I'm really glad to hear that it's working for you.

My goal was to develop something that the whole community could make and use that, was low cost, high quality and just as effective as the commercial variety.

I have to be honest and say that when I read about people successfully using the ZCS, it does make me feel good. Just knowing that I made a difference is very rewarding.

 

[TheGecko]

I'm really glad to hear that it's working for you.

My goal was to develop something that the whole community could make and use that, was low cost, high quality and just as effective as the commercial variety.

I have to be honest and say that when I read about people successfully using the ZCS, it does make me feel good. Just knowing that I made a difference is very rewarding.

And your goal has been exceeded in spades!

My first test of ZVCS is Ancient Sedona (BB). I don't have a photo without ZVSC but it discolors to a medium brown. After my test, I hadn't planned on purchasing more because as much as I was willing to 'embrace the brown', I didn't want a bunch of brown soaps. But seeing your test results, I went ahead and purchased an 8oz bottle.

This is a result of that first batch (I went for it) made 09/18/21:

This is a picture I just took now. The colors are a bit more mellow, but that has to do with different light:

This is Autumn Harvest without ZVSC. Just from the smell of the 1oz bottle that I bought, I went ahead and purchased a 16oz bottle with visions of bold green, orange, and red. I set the bottle aside because again...I had enough brown soaps:

This is Autumn Harvest made on 10/30/21:

This is a picture I took last week:

 

[Todd Ziegler]

That's great!

 

[John Harris]

Can someone please be kind enough to comment (simply) on this?

I want to make 32 fluid ounces of metabisulfate solution.

32 fl. ounces of water is 946 grams.
70 percent of the solution will be distilled water which is 662 grams.
30 percent of the solution will be metabisulfate which is 284 grams.
I plan to use it 1:1 with my FO.

Does this sound good?

 

[TheGecko]

Can someone please be kind enough to comment (simply) on this?

I want to make 32 fluid ounces of metabisulfate solution.

32 fl. ounces of water is 946 grams.
70 percent of the solution will be distilled water which is 662 grams.
30 percent of the solution will be metabisulfate which is 284 grams.
I plan to use it 1:1 with my FO.

Does this sound good?

I was kind enough to answer...several times.

 

[Mobjack Bay]

Totally impressive results! It's nice to have you back @Todd Ziegler. I'm sorry to hear that the knees were a problem, but happy to hear that you're healing and getting back to soaping.

 

[John Harris]

I was kind enough to answer...several times.

Please don't hate me because I am stupid!

I know many of you have been so patient with me. But no one has made it so clear as to say: John, you take this much of this and add it to this much of that. And then add this much of this. Mix well. A kind of zcvs for dummies

 

[AliOop]

Can someone please be kind enough to comment (simply) on this?

I want to make 32 fluid ounces of metabisulfate solution.

32 fl. ounces of water is 946 grams.
70 percent of the solution will be distilled water which is 662 grams.
30 percent of the solution will be metabisulfate which is 284 grams.
I plan to use it 1:1 with my FO.

Does this sound good?

Yes, that sounds good.

 

[TheGecko]

Please don't hate me because I am stupid!

I know many of you have been so patient with me. But no one has made it so clear as to say: John, you take this much of this and add it to this much of that. And then add this much of this. Mix well. A kind of zcvs for dummies

Yes I did.