Zany's no slime castile

[Zany_in_CO]

But wait. If mixing in liquid at 1.7, some of that weight is sea salt and sodium bicarbonate, not water. My understanding is that is how you formulated your recipe, correct? Technically the water ratio is not actually 1.7, but that is the amount of the faux sea water?

Correct.

I plan to repeat my sea water and lye mix tomorrow

NOT a good idea. Make the lye solution with the faux sea water only. TIP: I add the sea salt and sodium bicarbonate to some of the water, stir, and nuke it in the microwave for a minute. Stir. Nuke again if it isn't completely dissolved. Then add enough water to make a quart. Refrigerate. It should be clear.

My understanding is that
Phenolphthalein can be used to test for excess Alkali in bar soap by first dissolving the soap in distilled water. Do you think that would work?

If @DeeAnna were here, she would tell you that's the way to test the pH of bar soap, i.e., it's NOT a way to test for excess alkali. With all due respect, you're over-thinking the process. It's simply not necessary. If you follow the directions precisely, you will be amazed at the result.

 

[ScentimentallyYours]

Correct.

NOT a good idea. Make the lye solution with the faux sea water only. TIP: I add the sea salt and sodium bicarbonate to some of the water, stir, and nuke it in the microwave for a minute. Stir. Nuke again if it isn't completely dissolved. Then add enough water to make a quart. Refrigerate. It should be clear.

If @DeeAnna were here, she would tell you that's the way to test the pH of bar soap, i.e., it's NOT a way to test for excess alkali. With all due respect, you're over-thinking the process. It's simply not necessary. If you follow the directions precisely, you will be amazed at the result.

I followed the directions precisely the first time. Some of the sodium hydroxide did not dissolve, despite the temperature. My understanding is that we should never put lye solution in the microwave.
What kind of sea salt do you use? Do you know how much a tablespoon of it weighs? Phenolphthalein is recommended by Kevin Dunn on page 12 of scientific soap making to use for the analysis of pH in finished soaps. My concern is that I believe I saw undissolved bits of lye that may not incorporate into the finished soap. I will go check information on the proper way to test for residual lye unless you have a link to share. In the meantime, perhaps @DeeAnna will come put me straight.

 

[LynetteO]

@Zany_in_CO You are so correct in that, if directions are followed a beautiful soap is born. I had a coworker & friend ask me to make them a batch of soap & I said “sure, but you have to try a ZanyNSC bar 1st. I’m taking her some tomorrow. I’ve said it before & I’ll say it again… THANK YOU for all your hard work, fine tuning & best of all SHARING such a wonderful recipe!

 

[ResolvableOwl]

Helloooo from the bottom of the rabbit hole!

There's a bottom???

you have a link to share. In the meantime, perhaps @DeeAnna will come put me straight.

Not @DeeAnna , but here is the link anyway: “Phenolphthalein drops and pH test strips are notoriously inaccurate”.
Point is, the phenolphthalein colour change happens just in the pH region of the buffer range of soaps (FAs + FA alkali salts), i. e. the indicator is insensitive to rather large additions of acid/base. Plus, soaps are mixtures of different FAs, so where exactly the pink colour emerges, depends heavily on the recipe (FA chain lengths, superfat, …)! Soap that stays colourless might be lye-heavy, and soap that turns magenta might be just fine (e. g., soda ash is purely aesthetic, yet alkaline enough to trigger a false alarm wrt pH indicators).

 

[Zany_in_CO]

My understanding is that we should never put lye solution in the microwave.

You are correct.
Do NOT put lye in the microwave. I guess I wasn't clear. To make the faux sea water, I nuke ONLY the baking soda and sea salt to get it thoroughly dissolved before adding more water to make a quart.

What kind of sea salt do you use? Do you know how much a tablespoon of it weighs?

Morton's.
Um, you can easily answer the second question by weighing it, yes?

Phenolphthalein is recommended by Kevin Dunn

Cathy, dear heart, it's best to leave Kevin Dunn / phenolphthalein out of this conversation. Remember 20 years ago when you were making soap regularly? Don't overthink this. Let the failed batches do their thing over time and deal with that later. What you need right now, to my mind at least, is the experience of making a successful batch.

GOOD LUCK & HAPPY SOAPING!

ETA: If you have any more questions, or to post your results, please start a new thread. You can reference back to this conversation with this link:
https://www.soapmakingforum.com/threads/zanys-no-slime-castile.72620/page-35#post-914377
Thanks.

 

[Bubble Agent]

I have been contemplating the best way to get the resident hydrogeologist to engage in the finer points of making soap. Or to engage in any part of making soap at all. My thought is to hand Kevin Dunn’s book to him and have him read through the chemistry part. Any other ideas?

A great start! You could ALSO give him a couple of soaps and make him wash his hands in a LOT of different types of water, that will make him experience how a soap will act differently in very hard water, soft water, distilled water, carbonated water, a thousand year old glacier water, and other waters like an aficionado like him probably has stashed under his bed. (a waterbed. Obv)

The possebillities are endless! He may even end up starting from fresh, with a clean slate...
*insert lame smirk here*

 

[ScentimentallyYours]

I threw the first batch ZNSC out. Better safe than sorry. The second batch came out great. I cut it this morning and have it up on the rack to cure. I plan to make another batch this evening, but this time, I’m not going to use a stick blender. Hate seeing those air bubbles in beautiful soap.
Thank you for developing and sharing your formula, @Zany_in_CO!

 

[AliOop]

@Zany_in_CO and @ScentimentallyYours

In this other thread, I actually did the calculations to figure out how to use 1:1 master-batched lye solution with the correct amount of extra water, salt, and bicarb to make the equivalent of faux sea water. It worked out just fine, and I was thrilled not to have to make separate sea water and extra lye solution.

 

[Zany_in_CO]

In this other thread, I actually did the calculations to figure out how to use 1:1 master-batched lye solution with the correct amount of extra water, salt, and bicarb to make the equivalent of faux sea water.

Brilliant! I bookmarked it.

 

[ScentimentallyYours]

@Zany_in_CO and @ScentimentallyYours

In this other thread, I actually did the calculations to figure out how to use 1:1 master-batched lye solution with the correct amount of extra water, salt, and bicarb to make the equivalent of faux sea water. It worked out just fine, and I was thrilled not to have to make separate sea water and extra lye solution.

Thank you @AliOop! Yes, that is how I prepared the faux sea water for the second, successful batch of ZNSC. The only question I’d had was regarding variations in the weight of a tablespoon of sea salt. I have a couple with different sized grains. In measuring, I can also end up with weight variations with the same large grained salt from one tablespoon to another. That’s why using weight instead of volume is helpful in soap formulas. I appreciate your help!

 

[AliOop]

Thank you @AliOop! Yes, that is how I prepared the faux sea water for the second, successful batch of ZNSC. The only question I’d had was regarding variations in the weight of a tablespoon of sea salt. I have a couple with different sized grains. In measuring, I can also end up with weight variations with the same large grained salt from one tablespoon to another. That’s why using weight instead of volume is helpful in soap formulas. I appreciate your help!

I thought about that issue as well, and decided to stick with one kind of salt for this recipe, so I know that the weight is . But I guess that doesn't help the rest of you who might be using a different kind of salt. I believe the problem remains whether you switch to volume or stick with weight - your final resulting measurement may not be exact. But I also don't believe that every sample of sea water will be the same either, and that whatever we create is going to be close enough for those of us who aren't working under strict regulations.

 

[earlene]

This is a tried and true recipe that I've made several times. Others have tried it with excellent results. Be sure to keep the bar high and dry between uses by using a soap-saver-type soap dish. Tweak to your heart's delight! (Like, do I even need to say that?! )

ZANY’S NO SLIME OLIVE OIL CASTILE
Ingredients: Olive oil, water, sea salt, sodium bicarbonate.

1) MAKE FAUX SEAWATER - Use for water portion of the lye solution.
1 quart warm water
1 Tablespoon sea salt
1 Tablespoon sodium bicarbonate (baking soda)

I make up a quart at a time and store it in the fridge until I need it.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
2) MAKE LYE SOLUTION - Mix and allow to cool to 35°C - 40°C (100°F - 110°F).
1.7:1 Water to Lye Ratio (Note decimal and colon)
0% Super Fat/Lye Discount

Notes: I’ve tried 2:1 and 1.5:1. 1.5:1 gets almost too hard and 1:2 is okay but a bit slimey, so, for me, 1.7:1 is the ideal. Olive oil is high in unsaponifiables; so 0% SF works best to reduce slippery slime.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Prepare lye solution and set it in the sink to cool. Weigh olive oil into soap pot. Warm to 35°C - 40°C (100°F - 110°F). Combine when lye and oils are within -12°C (10°F) of each other. SB on and off to emulsion stage (5 - 25 minutes, depending on grade of olive oil.) Slowly pour into mold. Tap to remove bubbles. Spritz lightly with alcohol. Cover with plastic wrap. Insulate. Leave soap undisturbed for 12-24 hours.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
UNMOLD in 12-24 hours
CUT Day 2
CURE Ready to ship in 2 weeks. 6 weeks is best. The longer the cure the better the soap.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Unscented, this soap is suitable for babies, sensitive skin, and for cancer patients undergoing radiation. Add 5% castor oil and 10% coconut oil for bubbles and an even milder soap.

If adding fragrance, add 0.85 oz. FO or 0.5% EO /PPO (Per 500 grams) to the castor oil an hour or so ahead of time (or overnight) and a teaspoon PPO of dry ingredient of choice -- corn starch, oat flour, arrowroot powder, White Kaolin Clay, etc. -- to help “stick” the fragrance.

VARIATIONS: Infuse Calendula Petals (yellow) or Bay Leaves (green) in oil ahead of time. Strain. Use up to 40% in the batch to add mildness and color.

Zany, I finally gave your No-Slime Castile a try and I am impressed!

I was traveling, and did no have a true "Tablespoon" for the measuring of the Bicarb and Salt, but I'm not bad at guesstimating cooking measurements, so I think it was close enough. Nor did I have my IFR thermometer, but I felt that I could sort of tell by hand feel when the oil (heated in microwave oven) & lye solution were about in your recommended range. The only real deviance was that I thought I had brought a bottle of distilled water, but had forgotten that I had bought drinking water (same size & shape container at Walmart) when I found the distilled water had all been sold out and there was only drinking water left on the shelf. So that's what I used, rather than go out and look for it in another store in Texarkana (where I was at the time.)

I used [38% Lye] & 0% SF and it went very fast for a plain olive oil recipe. It was all done, swirled & molded within a half hour of starting, I think (aside from the faux seawater preparation, which I did the night before), and possibly a bit longer waiting for the lye solution to cool enough, but I didn't really time it to the minute.

Because I was traveling and didn't really want to cut another soap free hand, I left it in the mold 2 days (about 30 hours maybe) and it was so hard, I was really not expecting it, even though you stated above to cut on Day 2.

This soap reminds me a lot of soap made with vinegar to harden via Sodium Acetate. It's got the same smooth surface and getting a sheen on the surface with a polishing cloth is super easy with this soap. It may also be a lot like the surface of a high Palm oil soap, but it reminds me more of the vinegar soap somehow. And the amount of bubbles from the clean-up after planing & beveling was really nice, very sudsy, which I wasn't quite expecting, having added nothing to enhance bubbles.

I am looking forward to making this again, as well as to test the soap at 6-8 weeks. I'll try and remember to bring some with me on our Christmas trip as that will be about 8 weeks out and there will be 5 of us to get some feedback on how it compares to an older Castile (I don't have any other young Castile to compare.)

Next time I may use AliOop's calculations to create this soap using my MB lye & the appropriate amount of Salt & Bicarb to get the correct faux-seawater lye solution.

Thank you for sharing your recipe!


ETA: No color weirdness noted in the soap I made, but will keep an eye on it. The colors are as bright & vibrant at day #4 as when I made the soap. I mention this because a couple of pages back there were folks who experienced muted colors & thought it was the faux seawater. So I'll watch & report back if the colors fade.

 

[Zany_in_CO]

Zany, I finally gave your No-Slime Castile a try and I am impressed!

WOO HOO! Coming from you, that is high praise indeed!

 

[laraffinee]

Wow...thank you, Zany! I have been looking for a good recipe for a Castile Brine Soap and this sure sounds like what I have been looking for!

I am a Doctor and I have always appreciated the importance of pure, gentle, basic soap in maintaining the health of our skin. I have several hundred bars of soap from around the world (really!) in my research about the healing effects of a gentle soap especially for eczema and psoriasis. I thought of visiting Marseille and the traditional soap makers there, and I may still do that, but I am going to start at home and make a batch of this soap. If that goes well, I will experiment will adding herbal extracts to it. Question - liquid herbal extracts, would they be added to the water mixture before adding to the oil or after it starts to trace? Thank you so much!

 

[Peachy Clean Soap]

This is a tried and true recipe that I've made several times. Others have tried it with excellent results. Be sure to keep the bar high and dry between uses by using a soap-saver-type soap dish. Tweak to your heart's delight! (Like, do I even need to say that?! )

ZANY’S NO SLIME OLIVE OIL CASTILE
Ingredients: Olive oil, water, sea salt, sodium bicarbonate.

1) MAKE FAUX SEAWATER - Use for water portion of the lye solution.
1 quart warm water
1 Tablespoon sea salt
1 Tablespoon sodium bicarbonate (baking soda)

I make up a quart at a time and store it in the fridge until I need it.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
2) MAKE LYE SOLUTION - Mix and allow to cool to 35°C - 40°C (100°F - 110°F).
1.7:1 Water to Lye Ratio (Note decimal and colon)
0% Super Fat/Lye Discount

Notes: I’ve tried 2:1 and 1.5:1. 1.5:1 gets almost too hard and 1:2 is okay but a bit slimey, so, for me, 1.7:1 is the ideal. Olive oil is high in unsaponifiables; so 0% SF works best to reduce slippery slime.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Prepare lye solution and set it in the sink to cool. Weigh olive oil into soap pot. Warm to 35°C - 40°C (100°F - 110°F). Combine when lye and oils are within -12°C (10°F) of each other. SB on and off to emulsion stage (5 - 25 minutes, depending on grade of olive oil.) Slowly pour into mold. Tap to remove bubbles. Spritz lightly with alcohol. Cover with plastic wrap. Insulate. Leave soap undisturbed for 12-24 hours.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
UNMOLD in 12-24 hours
CUT Day 2
CURE Ready to ship in 2 weeks. 6 weeks is best. The longer the cure the better the soap.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Unscented, this soap is suitable for babies, sensitive skin, and for cancer patients undergoing radiation. Add 5% castor oil and 10% coconut oil for bubbles and an even milder soap.

If adding fragrance, add 0.85 oz. FO or 0.5% EO /PPO (Per 500 grams) to the castor oil an hour or so ahead of time (or overnight) and a teaspoon PPO of dry ingredient of choice -- corn starch, oat flour, arrowroot powder, White Kaolin Clay, etc. -- to help “stick” the fragrance.

VARIATIONS: Infuse Calendula Petals (yellow) or Bay Leaves (green) in oil ahead of time. Strain. Use up to 40% in the batch to add mildness and color.

this time I booked marked it

 

[Zany_in_CO]

Question - liquid herbal extracts, would they be added to the water mixture before adding to the oil or after it starts to trace? Thank you so much!

LOL You're welcome so much!
Great question! To avoid adding to an already overloaded thread, please start a new thread "Herbal Extracts in ZNSC" or something along those lines. This will enable more members to see it and contribute... myself included.

 

[Mobjack Bay]

Post has been moved here: Latest ZNSC

@Zany_in_CO I’m curious as to why you are classifying my soap as a variation. I used the recipe you provided for the coconut and castor version. A quick search of this thread reveals many previous posts about making ZNSC with coconut and castor (including over the last few weeks) and with variations in temp and lye concentration. Also, the post you mention below is my post, this one. Did you mean to reference a different post?

 

[Zany_in_CO]

Post has been moved here: Latest ZNSC

Perfect!

 

[AliOop]

@Zany_in_CO I think the best way to address your concerns is to ask the mods to lock the thread to any further replies. If they decline to do so, and the thread remains open, then people will continue to post here since the mods have decided to allow it.

I will admit that it is a bit confusing to me, and perhaps others, as to why some of the recent posts are ok with you, and others aren't. Not trying to argue - just letting you know how things look on this end of the screen.

Have a blessed day.

 

[Zany_in_CO]

@Mobjack Bay @AliOop I sent you each a PM.

I think the best way to address your concerns is to ask the mods to lock the thread to any further replies.

Good idea! I'll try that.