yogurt /goat milk soap making! bummer..

[kelly2019]

I need help figuring out what I've done for success and for failure.
In the three attempts I CPOP at 170 for appr 30 min then turned off the oven and left it for 12 hours or so before unmolding.
All three attemps I've used the off white batter, beautiful and lovely.
These are all small batches while I'm learning, from 16 to 20 ounce oil recipes.

I've made two batches of GM soap with CPOP method, first in a slab in single bar thickness, it DID orange and discolor even though I froze my milk to mix with lye, but since my fragrance was kind of an orange scent, that one worked out. (the lye mixture never heated over 75, as I ice bathed it while mixing)
I only used micas, no TD, for a color design.

The next I did a one pound loaf, this would be a 2-2.25 inch thickness, same frozen milk method, colored the batch at trace with cocoa/oil mixture...it made it a light coffee or hot chocolate color, NEXT I added TD and oatmeal to a bottom layer, pencil line with cocoa, and topped with the remaining cocoa colored batter.
THIS GM recipe worked fabulously. NO DISCOLOR. It's perfect.

Last night I thought I'd try YOGURT...in the slab (single thickness bars) , same lye method...same slab as first try. same results. I did used TD, but all the colors went dark and dingy looking, even the TD wasn't a pretty cream or white color.

Any thoughts on what I did right and wrong?
I'm wondering on loaf vs slab...
Could the cocoa or oats have been a factor in the success of second batch?
Should I try freezing my soap after I do the design in it with the slab mold, or give up the slab and just do the loaf?

 

[Misschief]

First off, you don't leave your soap in the oven with the oven on. Preheat your oven, then when the soap is ready to go in, turn the heat off and leave it for 12-24 hours.

Second, I wouldn't CPOP goats milk soap; it gets plenty hot on its own. As a matter of fact, I've had to put mine outside, in a snow bank, in the dead of winter because it was starting to crack in my totally not warm kitchen. You might want to try doing the split method: lye in an equal amount of water, then add the remainder of the liquid (goat milk) into the oils, as many here do.

I'm sure others will weigh in soon.

 

[kelly2019]

First off, you don't leave your soap in the oven with the oven on. Preheat your oven, then when the soap is ready to go in, turn the heat off and leave it for 12-24 hours.

Second, I wouldn't CPOP goats milk soap; it gets plenty hot on its own. As a matter of fact, I've had to put mine outside, in a snow bank, in the dead of winter because it was starting to crack in my totally not warm kitchen. You might want to try doing the split method: lye in an equal amount of water, then add the remainder of the liquid (goat milk) into the oils, as many here do.

I'm sure others will weigh in soon.

Thanks for the reply...so should I refrigerate, or even freeze after I pour the batter into the mold using the slab or loaf?
No preservatives needed or recommended?
Also, does the liquid amount stay the same on my lye calculator, just do even parts lye/water...then add the remaining amount to the cooled oils?
Would this be considered "room temp soaping" with cooler lye and oils?

 

[Misschief]

I usually leave my milk soaps at room temperature in a cool room, uncovered, and keep an eye on them. If I notice that they're starting to overheat, I'll put it in the freezer for a while.... if I have room. In the winter, I put it outside.

There are no preservatives needed when you're making soap with milk. By the time the process is finished, it's all pretty much saponified.

Yes, the liquid amount remains the same. Even parts lye and water and the remaining amount would be your milk.

I guess this would be room temp soaping. I usually just wait until I can comfortably touch the outside of my bowls (I use stainless steel); when I can comfortably hold my hand to the sides of the bowls, I go ahead and make my batter. I rarely take the temperature of the oils or the lye now.

Here's a pic of my last Goat Milk soap, Goat Milk & Lavender (the two rows in the middle). It's one of my best sellers.

 

[kelly2019]

I usually leave my milk soaps at room temperature in a cool room, uncovered, and keep an eye on them. If I notice that they're starting to overheat, I'll put it in the freezer for a while.... if I have room. In the winter, I put it outside.

There are no preservatives needed when you're making soap with milk. By the time the process is finished, it's all pretty much saponified.

Yes, the liquid amount remains the same. Even parts lye and water and the remaining amount would be your milk.

I guess this would be room temp soaping. I usually just wait until I can comfortably touch the outside of my bowls (I use stainless steel); when I can comfortably hold my hand to the sides of the bowls, I go ahead and make my batter. I rarely take the temperature of the oils or the lye now.

Here's a pic of my last Goat Milk soap, Goat Milk & Lavender (the two rows in the middle). It's one of my best sellers.
View attachment 38306

BEAUTIFUL! that's what I'm going for....lol...minus the failure.
Good news is that I tried your method for adding the yogurt to the oils, my soap is WHITE this morning! I put in the freezer (which might not be necessary, but we have an extra fridge/freezer so I had extra room) then I moved it to the fridge for a few hours, then outside for the night in our basement (42-52 degrees last night) I checked this morning and it's beautiful.

Let me ask though...it's still pretty soft, I pulled it out of the mold with the freezer paper liner, and then dropped it back in because it's too soft to cut.
Does this way of making yogurt or goat milk take longer to harden enough for unmolding? or should I try another recipe? The one I used contains about 50/50 hard and soft oils, I just thought they'd be extra moisturizing if I used more soft oils.

 

[Cellador]

When soap doesn't go through the gel phase , it can take longer to harden in the mold. For me, it's usually an extra 2 days, but I'd rather wait than have overheating issues.

 

[Misschief]

Just leave it a little longer. It will harden up. I usually wait a minimum of 24 hours to cut. Some soaps take longer.

Do keep in mind that soap is a wash off product; it isn't moisturizing. It's just less cleansing.

 

[IrishLass]

Let me ask though...it's still pretty soft, I pulled it out of the mold with the freezer paper liner, and then dropped it back in because it's too soft to cut.
Does this way of making yogurt or goat milk take longer to harden enough for unmolding? or should I try another recipe? The one I used contains about 50/50 hard and soft oils, I just thought they'd be extra moisturizing if I used more soft oils.

It's as Cellador said- when your soap doesn't go through the gel stage, it will remain softer and will take longer to unmold/cut. To explain- putting soap in the freezer slows down saponification and prevents the soap going through the gel stage, while insulating and/or placing in a warm oven speeds up saponification and encourages the soap to go through gel stage. If you found your soaps that came out of the oven to be harder and easier to unmold/cut, it's most likely because they went through the gel stage.

For what it's worth, I make my milk soaps using the split method and I can CPOP them just fine without any dark discoloration issues. They come out a beautiful, creamy/slightly off-white color, just like Mischief's goat milk and lavender soaps.

My procedure..... I like to make 100% goat milk soaps using the split method. First, I mix my recipe's lye amount with an equal amount of water in weight, then I stick-blend the remaining amount of water/liquid necessary for my batch as fresh (not frozen) goat milk into my heated oils/fats (either before or just after adding my lye solution), only I fortify the fresh milk beforehand with enough powdered goat milk to boost the goat milk content up to a 100% concentration for my entire liquid amount.

My soaping temp is no lower than 110F, i.e., I never let my batter go any lower than 110F at any time (this is to prevent stearic spots in my finished soap, because I happen to soap with a high amount of PKO and butters that tend to form stearic spots in my soap when soaped below 110F), and I CPOP in my oven to encourage gel.

The way I CPOP is to turn my oven on and let it preheat for a mere 10 minutes tops before putting my insulated soap inside and then immediately turning the oven off. Ten minutes of preheating is all it takes for my oven to warm up to 110F (my preferred CPOP temp), according to my oven's internal thermostat. Once I turn the oven off, I let my soap sit there inside it undisturbed for 18 hours before unmolding/cutting. I get a perfect gel every time without any overheating or discoloring issues.


IrishLass

 

[kelly2019]

Just leave it a little longer. It will harden up. I usually wait a minimum of 24 hours to cut. Some soaps take longer.

Do keep in mind that soap is a wash off product; it isn't moisturizing. It's just less cleansing.

Will do! I think your advice has created a milk soap monster in me...Lol. I have confidence now.

It's as Cellador said- when your soap doesn't go through the gel stage, it will remain softer and will take longer to unmold/cut. To explain- putting soap in the freezer slows down saponification and prevents the soap going through the gel stage, while insulating and/or placing in a warm oven speeds up saponification and encourages the soap to go through gel stage. If you found your soaps that came out of the oven to be harder and easier to unmold/cut, it's most likely because they went through the gel stage.

For what it's worth, I make my milk soaps using the split method and I can CPOP them just fine without any dark discoloration issues. They come out a beautiful, creamy/slightly off-white color, just like Mischief's goat milk and lavender soaps.

My procedure..... I like to make 100% goat milk soaps using the split method. First, I mix my recipe's lye amount with an equal amount of water in weight, then I stick-blend the remaining amount of water/liquid necessary for my batch as fresh (not frozen) goat milk into my heated oils/fats (either before or just after adding my lye solution), only I fortify the fresh milk beforehand with enough powdered goat milk to boost the goat milk content up to a 100% concentration for my entire liquid amount.

My soaping temp is no lower than 110F, i.e., I never let my batter go any lower than 110F at any time (this is to prevent stearic spots in my finished soap, because I happen to soap with a high amount of PKO and butters that tend to form stearic spots in my soap when soaped below 110F), and I CPOP in my oven to encourage gel.

The way I CPOP is to turn my oven on and let it preheat for a mere 10 minutes tops before putting my insulated soap inside and then immediately turning the oven off. Ten minutes of preheating is all it takes for my oven to warm up to 110F (my preferred CPOP temp), according to my oven's internal thermostat. Once I turn the oven off, I let my soap sit there inside it undisturbed for 18 hours before unmolding/cutting. I get a perfect gel every time without any overheating or discoloring issues.


IrishLass

Interesting!! I thought about the powdered milk but went for the cheaper quart version in the refrigerated section to try first.
Are the lye water and oils both around 110? Does your batter thicken quickly or do you have time to make a swirl or whatever inside?

 

[penelopejane]

Interesting!! I thought about the powdered milk but went for the cheaper quart version in the refrigerated section to try first.
Are the lye water and oils both around 110? Does your batter thicken quickly or do you have time to make a swirl or whatever inside?

I also used exactly the same method as Irish Lass’s. Like her, I use 1/2 fresh goats milk and then add enough GM powder to bring it up to 100% milk. I had to modify it when my new molds wouldn’t fit in the oven and now get the same effect - and results with a polystyrene box and blankets.

Yes oils and lye are 110*C. The batter does not thicken unless you over SB it. Take it to emulsion then mix colours in and it’s fine.

My soap gels every time, does not over heat, no stearic spots and I can unmold in about 18 hours.

 

[IrishLass]

Interesting!! I thought about the powdered milk but went for the cheaper quart version in the refrigerated section to try first.

Because the refrigerated kind is a favorite in my house to drink, I just use it as the remaining water amount for my batch, mixed with the powdered to fortify it.

Are the lye water and oils both around 110?

One can be higher than the other when mixed, but just as long as the temp of my combined batter goes no lower than 110F, I'm good. You can either choose to soap when both oils and lye are at 110, or when your lye is at room temp and your oils are at 120F-125F or so......whichever way one prefers doing it is fine.

Does your batter thicken quickly or do you have time to make a swirl or whatever inside?

I usually have my milk soap batter poured in the mold somewhere within the time span of 10-15 minutes or so from the time I poured my lye into the oils, which for me gives me plenty of time to do some pretty decent swirls done.......just as long as I'm working with a well-behaved FO, that is, and if I'm judicious with the stick-blending. Some FOs are so ornery that they don't allow time for much swirling, if for any at all, while other FOs actually slow down trace enough to give me a good half hour to 40 minutes of swirl time! A lot depends on the FO and how much I utilize the stick-blender.


IrishLass

 

[kelly2019]

This is how my loaf sliced after the cold temp treatment.
Ill get that powdered milk and try later in the week.

Im so excited!! You guys are so smart!

(I should have waited longer, it was really too soft)

Just a thought, too...Ive been using sodium lactate in other recipes...SHOULD I use it in this milk/yogurt recipe, too?

 

[Dawni]

That's very pretty!

I don't know about the others but once I finished a bottle of sodium lactate I didn't buy another because for me, I get the same ease (or not lol) in unmolding and hardness from just salt in my liquid. I'm trying to cut down costs so for me this works.

 

[kelly2019]

That's very pretty!

I don't know about the others but once I finished a bottle of sodium lactate I didn't buy another because for me, I get the same ease (or not lol) in unmolding and hardness from just salt in my liquid. I'm trying to cut down costs so for me this works.

Well, I'm thinking the same...How much, how, and when to add? What has been successful for you?
Also, do you add that on every recipe you make or just certain ones?
I started to order some today, but shipping for a 6 oz bottle... I don't sell my soap at this point, so I'd like to learn the basics on a budget. Lol

 

[IrishLass]

I don't use sodium lactate in my milk soaps, as the milk seems to mimic what sodium lactate adds to my regular soaps.


IrishLass

 

[Dawni]

Well, I'm thinking the same...How much, how, and when to add? What has been successful for you?
I don't sell my soap at this point, so I'd like to learn the basics on a budget. Lol

I don't sell either and soaping is an expensive hobby lol

I've never tried SL in CP, sorry.. But in HP I used the amount recommended by SoapCalc, and added it after my cook, if that helps.

IrishLass answered your other question

 

[kelly2019]

I don't sell either and soaping is an expensive hobby lol

I've never tried SL in CP, sorry.. But in HP I used the amount recommended by SoapCalc, and added it after my cook, if that helps.

IrishLass answered your other question

ok, I know this is a rookie question...lol...but where does it recommend salt or sodium lactate amount in the soap calculator, or which do you use that tells you what amount? It's probably right in my face and I'm not seeing it!

 

[earlene]

The MMS calculator has SL built in, but for the most part, people seem to use generally accepted guidelines for SL and for salt.

https://www.soapqueen.com/bramble-berry-news/sunday-night-spotlight-sodium-lactate/

https://www.thesprucecrafts.com/make-soap-harder-faster-517222

 

[kelly2019]

The MMS calculator has SL built in, but for the most part, people seem to use generally accepted guidelines for SL and for salt.

https://www.soapqueen.com/bramble-berry-news/sunday-night-spotlight-sodium-lactate/

https://www.thesprucecrafts.com/make-soap-harder-faster-517222

Thank you, Earlene! I'll check it out.

 

[Dawni]

Yes, sorry @kelly2019 it was the calc in the first link earlene gave you from MMS not SoapCalc lol I've forgotten coz I don't use both calcs nor SL anymore.