Xanthan gum-liquid soap

[Claudsoap]

Does anyone have a great method with using xanthan gum to thicken their liquid soap? I've tried several times and I'm left with big jelly blobs.

 

[DeeAnna]

I don't use separate thickeners with my LS, but Faith Oriold has written some articles about her experiences with various thickeners for LS. If I remember correctly, she reports xanthan gum is tough to use and get good results. See http://alaiynab.blogspot.com/search/label/tutorial

 

[dleight]

Glycerin!

Glycerin is the magic answer to Xanthan Gum. I did a LOT of reading about this and it turns out that Xanthan gum starts to swell when it comes in contact with water. If you mix it with Glycerin or oil, that solves the big jelly blob mess. I've tried mixing it with Glycerin and no big jelly blob

Read more here: http://curious-soapmaker.com/how-to-dissolve-xanthan-gum.html

 

[DeeAnna]

I'm not entirely convinced glycerin is the magic solution to using xanthan gum to thicken liquid soap. Did you read Evik's additional information in the comments?

"..I never had success with Xanthan gum in thickening liquid soap. It only gels in water, so it really depends how much of water your soap contains. Also – it is not that good in thickening high alkaline products, it is incompatible with metal ions. Every time I finished having part of it sinked to the bottom…..."

And this --
"...thickening soap is very tricky. Xanthan gum won’t work, nor the corn starch and I believe nor the arabic gum...."

 

[dleight]

I did read those posts - everything is tricky with soap-making So far I've had pretty good results but I've only used it a few times. It wasn't that great as an additive to liquid soap that I'd already diluted but it worked great in some body wash that I made but was too thin (castile soap + honey + grapeseed oil + vit E oil + essential oils). I'm trying it now in some liquid soap but before I dilute it. I'll see how that goes.

 

[LaureLive]

Hello , I agree with you that xanthan gum don’t work great with high Alkine solutions, but carbormer is great choice, in cosmetics , it is used for making jell and it requires alkine water to get hydrolyzed with water , they first add TEA (triethanolamin) or Naoh to water to make it alkaline and they add %0.5 carbormer of total formula and fix ... it also make clear gel not like xantum gum does ..

 

[Rholeen]

I have used Guar Gum to thicken my all home made liquid soaps with great success
1-2 teaspoons Guar Gum ( per litre of liquid soap) soaked in 30 mls Glycerin for 15 mins, then stick blend with liquid soap for 5 mins usually 1%

 

[Zany_in_CO]

1-2 teaspoons Guar Gum ( per litre of liquid soap) soaked in 30 mls Glycerin for 15 mins, then stick blend with liquid soap for 5 mins

That's very interesting. I'm wondering if any heat is involved?
What is your dilution ratio of paste to water?
Is your liquid soap high in olive oil? or coconut oil? Does that work for all formulas?
Doesn't stick blending for 5 mins create a lot of foam?
I would love to hear more details... please and thank you.

 

[Rholeen]

That's very interesting. I'm wondering if any heat is involved?
What is your dilution ratio of paste to water?
Is your liquid soap high in olive oil? or coconut oil? Does that work for all formulas?
Doesn't stick blending for 5 mins create a lot of foam?
I would love to hear more details... please and thank you.

I make a large 3 litre bottle of hand wash from my liquid soap; I will measure 30 50 mls of glyceine in a bowl and add 6 teaspoons of guar gum and mix to a running paste; just enough glycerne for it to be easy to work with. Smaller amounts soap = smaller amount glycerine. After 15 mins or so I start adding my 3 litres of liquid soap, gently mixing. I then stick blend for 5-6 mins when it becomes the thick consistency I want. small amounts of froth and bubble but that does seem to go on settleing. No, no heat and I have never had jelly lumps. Ok once but that was because I tried to thicken the hand wash more without trying to go through process with glycerine.

• No, no heat
• I usually use Coconut oil 30 % with Olive oil =/>30%, with other oils added as per soap calculator
• So far has work for all my mixtures
• small amounts of froth and bubble which sttles on thickening and resting. I use a laege container to prepare.

Hope this helps

 

[Zany_in_CO]

@Rholeen OK. Thanks. There are other factors involved but I'll leave it there for now -- unless you don't mind sharing the printout of your lye-calculation (easier for me to understand) and your dilution rate of soap paste to water?

1-2 teaspoons Guar Gum ( per litre of liquid soap) soaked in 30 mls Glycerin for 15 mins, then stick blend with liquid soap for 5 mins usually 1%

I have some just-made and diluted Lard & PKO LS on hand (aka "Hogwash" LOL). I don't have Guar Gum, tho. Maybe Xanthan Guam will work as well? I'll give it a go. Can't hurt and may help. Dunno.

ETA: I'm so disappointed. I followed your directions exactly except for using Xanthan instead of Guar. I thought it seemed a bit thicker at first, but when I compared it to what I had on hand, it didn't thicken like I hoped it would. What really surprised me was that the bubbles were truly minimal and easily dispersed with a spritz of alcohol.

 

[Rholeen]

I am sorry that did not work, not sure what to tell you.
I make my liquid soap in a 6 litre crock pt from a recipe I found on Youtube years ago
It was for 1000 gm total oil batch with soap calc for lye and water. I have used many recipe variations with success. (3% superfat)
This lye & water solution comes from a 5 litres bottle which is all used to dilute the paste (when cooked) in the crockpot and left over night. I then bottle the solution in the morning in the 5 litre bottle and thicken as I need in 2 litre lots with guar gum.
I guess this is just a little under 1:1.5 (1 part paste to 1.5 parts water)
I have had a look for the link but cannot find the original video
hope this makes sense

 

[Zany_in_CO]

hope this makes sense

It does! Thank you for taking the time to write that explanation. It sounds like you have your liquid soap-making method down pat. Well done!

I guess this is just a little under 1:1.5 (1 part paste to 1.5 parts water)

Most of my LS formulas, like the 50/50 PKO/Lard (aka "Hogwash") use 40% paste to 60% water, i.e., 1:1.5 paste:water.

FWIW, that's my dilution rate for formulas that contain 50% or higher Coconut Oil or PKO. For Castile LS that is high in Olive Oil or similar liquid oil like 85% Olive, 10% coconut, 5% castor, I use a different different ratio: 20% paste to 80% water.
I also use Carrie Petersen's GLS method for that to speed things up.

Dumb me! I should have read the rest of this thread before trying Xanthan Gum. Like others mentioned above, it thickened somewhat at first but settled to the bottom over night! Although it didn't take long to accomplish, I could saved myself the time and effort! Tsk, tsk.

I hope someone who reads this will try your method with Guar Gum! It's a proven winner, to my mind at least.

 

[Kcryss]

I've been having trouble with thickening liquid soap. Experimenting off and on for 2 yrs. I bought some guar gum so I could this method.

 

[Zany_in_CO]

I bought some guar gum so I could this method.

The one key bit of into that @Rholeen was reluctant to share is her FA (Fatty Acids) formula from that video she mentioned. Which is fine. I understand why members withhold that info. But your guess is as good as mine when it comes to formulating.