WTH?

[DoctorCrowley]

Usually I can unmold my soaps after 24 hours. The past two times they have been soft as play dough or softer after 24 hours. This latest one is still very mushy (but I can pull the silicone away from the mold and it's formed in there). Yesterday I made sure I measured on two different scales and checked everything on the recipe twice before adding. It's very low humidity here so that's not a factor in it. Recipe is:

LATEST RECIPE
30% lye concentration
3% superfat (trying this yes I know most prefer 5%, last one was 5% and still softer than play doh)

45% lard
20% CO
15% OO
5% Sweet Almond OIl
5% Castor Oil
5% Shea Butter
5% Cocoa Butter

PREVIOUS RECIPE (from my other post, also soft after 24 hours)
30% lye concentration
5% superfat

30% OO
25% Lard
20% CO
5% Almond Oil
7.5% Shea
7.5% Cocoa Butter
EDIT: 5% castor (added to shea and cocoa, i wasn't thinking right lol)

Thanks for your input!!!

 

[lsg]

You last recipe only had 90% ingredients.

 

[Mobjack Bay]

Many variables can affect how quickly the soap hardens. For example, has the temperature dropped in your soap making space? Are you gelling the soaps? Is the lye new (If older, the purity may be degraded). Are you using the same lard as before?

 

[DoctorCrowley]

You last recipe only had 90% ingredients.

Yeah I edited it for the previous one I wasn't thinking as I was typing. Sorry.

Many variables can affect how quickly the soap hardens. For example, has the temperature dropped in your soap making space? Are you gelling the soaps? Is the lye new (If older, the purity may be degraded). Are you using the same lard as before?

I moved my stuff to the basement. I've made 5 soaps down there, the first 3 were perfectly fine and the temp hasn't really changed it's been about 65-67. I soap at around 90-95 F. I gelled 2 of the 5 cpop. Another one I experimented with goats milk (but not these two). The lye was bought a few months ago. The lard is different I think....maybe. I don't remember when I had to open a new one.

 

[Mobjack Bay]

One type of store bought lard (Smithfield) i used in the past makes softer soap. It was noticeably softer in the container compared with Armor or WhiteCap, but it’s been a long time since I used it. Gelling makes a big difference in how quickly I can unmold soaps, but I also mostly use a lye concentration of 35% or higher and superfat at 2%. At 33% lye concentration or higher, I would expect a gelled version of the first recipe you listed to be ready to unmold in 24 hours or less. I’ve read about stored lye degrading when moisture gets into the container, so maybe you should try replacing it with a new batch. One last thought is that FOs can change how fast or slow soap will harden.

 

[DoctorCrowley]

One type of store bought lard (Smithfield) i used in the past makes softer soap. It was noticeably softer in the container compared with Armor or WhiteCap, but it’s been a long time since I used it. Gelling makes a big difference in how quickly I can unmold soaps, but I also mostly use a lye concentration of 35% or higher and superfat at 2%. At 33% lye concentration or higher, I would expect a gelled version of the first recipe you listed to be ready to unmold in 24 hours or less. I’ve read about stored lye degrading when moisture gets into the container, so maybe you should try replacing it with a new batch. One last thought is that FOs can change how fast or slow soap will harden.

Now that you mention it, i opened a new lye container not long ago either. I bought 5 2lb containers in the middle of September just for convenience of not running out. It never occurred to me that it would have a limited shelf life. I could try one of the other containers. I want to say I had to switch the lye and lard out around the same time, so it could be anyone's guess as to which one it is.

One type of store bought lard (Smithfield) i used in the past makes softer soap. It was noticeably softer in the container compared with Armor or WhiteCap, but it’s been a long time since I used it. Gelling makes a big difference in how quickly I can unmold soaps, but I also mostly use a lye concentration of 35% or higher and superfat at 2%. At 33% lye concentration or higher, I would expect a gelled version of the first recipe you listed to be ready to unmold in 24 hours or less. I’ve read about stored lye degrading when moisture gets into the container, so maybe you should try replacing it with a new batch. One last thought is that FOs can change how fast or slow soap will harden.

Will it still be usable if it's a lye moisture issue?

 

[Mobjack Bay]

If the lye in the container is really clumpy it‘s probably gone bad, but I‘ve made perfectly fine soap using lye that had minor clumping that fell apart easily. You could try dropping the superfat down to 2% for the lye and lard you’re using now. If one of them is at the root of the problem, the soap should get firmer faster. Have you considered upping your lye concentration a bit? That might also help, but I think I would try dropping the superfat first to avoid adding another variable.

As the lye loses purity, the soap made with it will have a higher than calculated superfat. That’s why I am suggesting that you compensate by dropping the superfat in the recipe. No lye we use for soapmaking is 100% pure to start with. It’s usually more like 96-98% percent pure when you first open the container and can lose strength over time as the lye reacts with the moisture in the air. Soap calculators assume the lye is 100% pure, which means they build in a little margin of safety even when the superfat is set to 0%.

 

[DoctorCrowley]

If the lye in the container is really clumpy it‘s probably gone bad, but I‘ve made perfectly fine soap using lye that had minor clumping that fell apart easily. You could try dropping the superfat down to 2% for the lye and lard you’re using now. If one of them is at the root of the problem, the soap should get firmer faster. Have you considered upping your lye concentration a bit? That might also help, but I think I would try dropping the superfat first to avoid adding another variable.

As the lye loses purity, the soap made with it will have a higher than calculated superfat. That’s why I am suggesting that you compensate by dropping the superfat in the recipe. No lye we use for soapmaking is 100% pure to start with. It’s usually more like 96-98% percent pure when you first open the container and can lose strength over time as the lye reacts with the moisture in the air. Soap calculators assume the lye is 100% pure, which means they build in a little margin of safety even when the superfat is set to 0%.

Yeah there were some small clumps in there but there wasn't much left anyway so I tossed that and the lard (not much left in that container either. I'm going to go with those changes for right now and then if I still have issues then I'll lower the super fat. If that doesn't work then I'll lower both superfat and raise the lye concentration. If all that fails I have no idea where to go from there lmao.

If the lye in the container is really clumpy it‘s probably gone bad, but I‘ve made perfectly fine soap using lye that had minor clumping that fell apart easily. You could try dropping the superfat down to 2% for the lye and lard you’re using now. If one of them is at the root of the problem, the soap should get firmer faster. Have you considered upping your lye concentration a bit? That might also help, but I think I would try dropping the superfat first to avoid adding another variable.

As the lye loses purity, the soap made with it will have a higher than calculated superfat. That’s why I am suggesting that you compensate by dropping the superfat in the recipe. No lye we use for soapmaking is 100% pure to start with. It’s usually more like 96-98% percent pure when you first open the container and can lose strength over time as the lye reacts with the moisture in the air. Soap calculators assume the lye is 100% pure, which means they build in a little margin of safety even when the superfat is set to 0%.

Is it possible that I'm not soaping at a high enough temperature for saponification to fully take place? When I soap at 90-95 and get it in the loaf I take the temp in there every once in a while and it never goes above 85. I know soaping temps are debatable in terms of relevance to the soaping process. But when I used a high OO beginner soap recipe it would always heat up even if I soaped at 85-90. Now that I'm using higher solid fats maybe I need to go to 110-120.

I ask this because as it was still mush last night (the same level of mush it was in the morning) I ended up CPOPing before bed and now it's hard as a rock and cut. I had some remnants stuck in the mold and they were still mushy but only slightly less than yesterday.

 

[Mobjack Bay]

If the oil and lye are not separating in the mold, the soap is doing its thing. If heat helped then it sounds like you have your answer. I thought you had already tried cpop.

 

[Becky1024]

Lard, in my humble opinion, is finicky about temperature when it is in the mold. I have had some hard as a rock and hard to cut after a day, and others very soft and it was because they were kept a little cooler. You might try gently heating yours - maybe put a heating pad under the mold for a couple of hours, or CPOP it and see if it hardens.

 

[DoctorCrowley]

Lard, in my humble opinion, is finicky about temperature when it is in the mold. I have had some hard as a rock and hard to cut after a day, and others very soft and it was because they were kept a little cooler. You might try gently heating yours - maybe put a heating pad under the mold for a couple of hours, or CPOP it and see if it hardens.

Thank you. Do I insulate the top with a towel as well or just the heating pad underneath?

 

[Becky1024]

Thank you. Do I insulate the top with a towel as well or just the heating pad underneath?

I put the heating pad on a cookie sheet. Then I wrap a couple of towels around the mold - top, bottom, sides, and put that on the heating pad.

 

[DoctorCrowley]

I put the heating pad on a cookie sheet. Then I wrap a couple of towels around the mold - top, bottom, sides, and put that on the heating pad.

That will promote gel phase right? If I don't want gel then I have to deal with it being soft?

 

[linne1gi]

Yeah there were some small clumps in there but there wasn't much left anyway so I tossed that and the lard (not much left in that container either. I'm going to go with those changes for right now and then if I still have issues then I'll lower the super fat. If that doesn't work then I'll lower both superfat and raise the lye concentration. If all that fails I have no idea where to go from there lmao.

When you mix your lye with water, does the temperature go over 180? If so, the lye is fine.