Wrestlers' soap?

[MGM]

My 13 y o is now into wrestling and we were told to use an anti-fungal shampoo for ringworm, etc. Selsun blue or something was recommended, which AFAIK, is more to slough off dead skin cells when you have dandruff which might be caused by a fungus (or psoriasis or dry skin or a yeast), but isn't actually anti-fungal on its own. I started thinking about a soap...TTO, eucalyptus oil, neem oil, pine tar....what else to throw into this thing?
And, what base recipe would you recommend? Higher on cleansing, I guess...anything else to consider?
I will likely do more research and buy a proper anti-fungal wrestling shampoo (suggestions, if you have them!), but I'm thinking the rest of him could do with a soap.

 

[Ashleigh]

Along the line of "sloughing off dead skin cells" maybe some activated charcoal? I found my bar exfoliating.

Have you considered a lotion? Since its a leave on product you are likely to get more of the antifungal properties of your oils that will likely just get eaten up by the lye in a soap.

 

[MGM]

Along the line of "sloughing off dead skin cells" maybe some activated charcoal? I found my bar exfoliating.

Have you considered a lotion? Since its a leave on product you are likely to get more of the antifungal properties of your oils that will likely just get eaten up by the lye in a soap.

Yes, I don't think we're actually looking for an exfoliant; I just know that that's what salicylic acid in dandruff shampoos does (but I don't think they really treat the fungal part of it all. I need to do more reading to be sure). We definitely will use a lotion if there is an actual infection, but the soap part is classic cleansing...not trying to "heal" or "treat", just trying to *wash off the ringworm*, etc. etc. and thinking that a souped-up soap is the way to go. Apparently both neem and TTO retain their anti-fungal/viral properties post-lye---I was surprised! (Of course I also need to look into skin-safe %, too).

 

[Ashleigh]

Apparently both neem and TTO retain their anti-fungal/viral properties post-lye---I was surprised! (Of course I also need to look into skin-safe %, too).

This is really interesting! From everything I've read it seemed there was nothing conclusive that any properties of oils/additives would survive the lye. I have some Neem but haven't got around to trying it yet.

I'd be interested in hearing what you come up with

 

[Obsidian]

Selsum blue contains selenium sulfide which is indeed a anti fungal.
I don't know if I would trust lye soap to be used as medicine in this case.

 

[MGM]

This is really interesting! From everything I've read it seemed there was nothing conclusive that any properties of oils/additives would survive the lye. I have some Neem but haven't got around to trying it yet.

I'd be interested in hearing what you come up with

I can't find the article (that someone on this forum posted) about tea tree surviving and being antibacterial....grrr..I know they always say "search the forum" but I can't find things that I know I posted on here. Maybe I'm a bad searcher. Will keep looking in my spare time ;-)

 

[DeeAnna]

I think this article answers the question whether tea tree survives saponification: https://roberttisserand.com/2011/06/essential-oils-in-soap-interview-with-kevin-dunn/

 

[earlene]

I am was surprised to read that the conventional wisdom regarding wrestling has changed so much over the past few decades. In my youth I dated a wrestler and my sons took wrestling when they were young as well, and this all came as a total surprise to me. Of course I haven't paid any attention to wrestling as a sport in at least 4 decades, so that excuses my surprise. Still I had to look it up because it made me wonder, and after all, I like educational opportunities.

For those who wonder why the conventional wisdom is recommending these precautions for wrestlers now, here's an interesting link:
https://www.nfhs.org/articles/prevention-key-to-reducing-skin-infections-in-high-school-wrestling/

Good luck to your nephew, MGM.

As far as a soap, I tend to agree medicinal soap might not be the best option, but it might be useful to include a pre-shower product that could be used prior to using your soap. I would not suggest a lotion or anything prior to a meet or wrestling event as that is probably forbidden for obvious reasons (causes the skin to be slippery, which to do intentionally would be unsportsman-like conduct.) But something that could be rubbed or massaged into the skin as a pre-shower cleanser/muscle soothing oil kind of thing, might be beneficial. Using a carrier oil and some of the ingredients that would help prevent infection would be where I would probably go with this idea. I'd lean towards a Thieves oil kind of mixture and work from there.

 

[MGM]

I am was surprised to read that the conventional wisdom regarding wrestling has changed so much over the past few decades. In my youth I dated a wrestler and my sons took wrestling when they were young as well, and this all came as a total surprise to me. Of course I haven't paid any attention to wrestling as a sport in at least 4 decades, so that excuses my surprise. Still I had to look it up because it made me wonder, and after all, I like educational opportunities.

Yes, it's quite an infectious sport now! Makes sense I guess...lots of slippery skin-to-skin contact and lots of nasty bugs out there. The increase of antibiotic resistance is scary, and the idea you could contract MRSA from wrestling is quite something!

Good luck to your nephew, MGM.

Not my nephew, it's my son! Shared shower, shared towels, responsibility for his health, so I'm highly motivated

As far as a soap, I tend to agree medicinal soap might not be the best option, but it might be useful to include a pre-shower product that could be used prior to using your soap. I would not suggest a lotion or anything prior to a meet or wrestling event as that is probably forbidden for obvious reasons (causes the skin to be slippery, which to do intentionally would be unsportsman-like conduct.) But something that could be rubbed or massaged into the skin as a pre-shower cleanser/muscle soothing oil kind of thing, might be beneficial. Using a carrier oil and some of the ingredients that would help prevent infection would be where I would probably go with this idea. I'd lean towards a Thieves oil kind of mixture and work from there.

I ended up buying this soap: Defense .
I will attempt to reverse engineer it once the 5 bars run out. It is quite nice and smells very fresh.
I think I will also make some of the wipes, using just some standard baby or body wipes and adding distilled water, preservative, polysorbate as an emulsifier, and TTO, Eucalyptus, and Peppermint. It seems that it's important to wipe down before your sweat dries, so these can be used right at the gym. Might be able to set up a little business supplying the other fellows, too ;-)


@DeeAnna I didn't see anything in that Tisserand interview that indicated whether TTO and Eucalyptus's properties would be rendered ineffective, beyond the boiling point, but I'm pretty sure my soap isn't getting to 330F. Or am I misinterpreting what you meant?
The soap website does provide one study showing the soap's effectiveness, but it's hard to tell if that's due to the EOs or just to the fact that it's soap

 

[Mobjack Bay]

I didn't see anything in that Tisserand interview that indicated whether TTO and Eucalyptus's properties would be rendered ineffective, beyond the boiling point, but I'm pretty sure my soap isn't getting to 330F.

Did you notice that Tisserand added this in the comments section?:

Robert Tisserand on June 28, 2011 at 11:10 pm

Hi Linda. I am not aware of any peer-reviewed studies that directly compare soap without essential oil to the same soap with essential oil, in terms of antibacterial or any other properties. But, there is plenty of anecdotal evidence that essential oils in soap are active. The heat may cause some loss of essential oil molecules through evaporation, but it should not cause any significant chemical changes. The contact with alkali will cause some chemical changes, and of course that’s what Kevin describes in the interview. These changes may or may not result in an alteration of therapeutic properties. That depends on which properties you are measuring and also on which constituents you are talking about, so there isn’t a simple answer. Except perhaps to say that in MOST instances essential oils do in fact retain their therapeutic action!

 

[lenarenee]

Selsum blue contains selenium sulfide which is indeed a anti fungal.
I don't know if I would trust lye soap to be used as medicine in this case.

Yeah I agree. I'd invest in proven products with a guaranteed dose and efficacy rather than tea tree soap. Essential oils are not standardized, so every batch will have a differing amount of active constituents.

My boys did wrestling 10 years ago, and ringworm and other infections were a daily concern. (MRSA was still rare) Some of the equipment, especially shoes, aren't water washable so we went through cans of Lysol, plus stored equipment out in the sunlight (depending on the month). We discouraged the sharing of equipment as well. We also used 10% bleach solution when we could.

Hibiclens was something we sent along in their equipment bags, with a scrubby. It's the stuff Dr.s use to scrub up before surgery. It can continue to kill germs for hours after use. I don't know how long the anti-fungal effect lasts.

You'll need to use a Lysol or bleach solution for after he uses your shower too...so it doesn't spread to family members.

 

[earlene]

Regarding how soap is effective in reducing/removing contaminants from the skin: As per our Infection Control Nurses with whom I worked in my previous worklife (repeatedly stated in almost all of her educational programs): FRICTION during washing is the major contributing factor in bacterial removal from the skin when washing with soap (or any other washing method). That's why everything you read about proper handwashing says to scrub or rub your hands together vigorously. That's why surgeons use those scrubby sponges so extensively prior to each surgery. (see this video: )

Anyway, that intro is just to reiterate how important the rubbing process is with the wipes. They look like a very good choice and let your son know how important the scrubbing process is while they are being used. And while showering. That's what is doing the majority of the work and will protect him the most.

Lenarenee learned her stuff pretty well it sounds like, too. , particularly with the 10% bleach solution (that's what we used to de-contaminate CPR equipment), which means 1 part bleach to 9 parts water. AND if you want to fully soak any piece of equipment for full de-contamination, it should soak for 10 minutes before removal and then allowed to air-dry. But I don't see how you can actually soak anything except mouth guards for that long, as I think most other equipment can't really be soaked. So it comes down to vigorous scrubbing with the bleach solution (head gear, etc.) and laundering the clothing with a good detergent. This is where I think a good old fashioned washing machine might be a better choice than the newer HE machines because the new ones don't really use a lot of agitation, so if you have a sanitation cycle in your dryer, I'd use that with the clothing.

I was shopping for Lysol a month or so ago and was shocked at how expensive it had become. I'm not sure if it was that the price here in Texas wasn't just a whole lot higher than in Illinois (not what I normally see for price differences between the two states; it's usually the reverse) or if I just hadn't purchased any in so long that I hadn't realized it had gone up so much over the last time I bought a 3-pack back home. Anyway, I think the bleach solution would be more affordable than Lysol these days.

 

[Becky1024]

My son is a wrestler too. Since wrestlers shower a lot I recommend making a soap with a low cleansing value and high super fat so it is moisturizing and conditioning. The reason is dry skin can have lots of little cracks and holes that allow the germs to get in. You may want to add essential oils that help condition the skin too.

My soap has olive oil, avacado oil and a few other oils, chamomile, tea tree, eucalyptus and 8% superfat.

 

[Jennifer Horne]

My 13 y o is now into wrestling and we were told to use an anti-fungal shampoo for ringworm, etc. Selsun blue or something was recommended, which AFAIK, is more to slough off dead skin cells when you have dandruff which might be caused by a fungus (or psoriasis or dry skin or a yeast), but isn't actually anti-fungal on its own. I started thinking about a soap...TTO, eucalyptus oil, neem oil, pine tar....what else to throw into this thing?
And, what base recipe would you recommend? Higher on cleansing, I guess...anything else to consider?
I will likely do more research and buy a proper anti-fungal wrestling shampoo (suggestions, if you have them!), but I'm thinking the rest of him could do with a soap.

Actually, as someone who just got over ring worm let me tell you the best way to get rid of it is ATHLETES FOOT CREAM

 

[MGM]

Actually, as someone who just got over ring worm let me tell you the best way to get rid of it is ATHLETES FOOT CREAM

Yes, sorry, I didn't mean soap as a treatment, but as prevention. If he ever gets it, we'll treat it, but these things were recommended as preventative washes.