Would you do it? Use more of a particular EO than is recommended? Any other recommendations?

[akseattle]

Hi, not sure if it relates. The only time I have seen fo/eo sweats. Was when I used an fo at just max usage. Let alone adding more. Just seemed like to much oil.(Per the little voices.) I'm in the same arena as the others. On the safety issues.

@Ford I'm with you now too! On the safety issues.

 

[paradisi]

I am the person who would definitely have a terrible reaction to excess basil, unfortunately. The symptoms are no joke: intense skin flushing, rapid heartrate, and rapidly elevated blood pressure. I've never had a heart attack (AFAIK), but that's how I'd describe the feeling.

As far as sweet orange, yes, a fairly small amount definitely discolors the batter. It's one of my favorites as well, so I end up making more orange- or red-colored soap than I would otherwise choose to do.

Wow. Truly scary.
Is that by ingestion or skin exposure? Did you apply it neat?
I get irritation & flushing from some spice fo's in cosmetics, but never heart or blood pressure issues.

 

[AliOop]

Wow. Truly scary.
Is that by ingestion or skin exposure? Did you apply it neat?
I get irritation & flushing from some spice fo's in cosmetics, but never heart or blood pressure issues.

That is from skin exposure to properly diluted EOs. All of the "hot" EOs affect me this way (clove, cinnamon, nutmeg, basil, thyme, anise, etc.), plus a few others that are considered "mild," such a tea tree, peppermint, and manuka.

 

[Jarrett Clay]

Ok soapers, I have to ask: Would you do it? Use more of a particular EO than is recommended?
I am making only my second batch of cold process soap. I made my first small (5 bar) batch on January 6. I haven't used it yet as it hasn't cured for 6 weeks. In that batch, I just guessed at how much fragrance to use based on what I had been doing with Melt & Pour and a few other things I'd read. My soap didn't/ doesn't smell like anything except the mildest pleasant smell of oil (or what I imagine that to be.) I had used what I believed to be a coconut essential oil that I now know was coconut fragrance (or maybe not even that- like a drop of coconut fragrance in a carrier oil?? - kick me if I fall for that again....) I love the smell of fresh sweet basil. Since this summer, when I realized sweet basil EO smells like very strong anise (which I don't care for) I have been experimenting, trying to come up with a blend of EO's that smell like sweet basil out of my garden. I finally came up with a blend of lemongrass 25%, basil 25%, sweet orange 45% and peppermint 1% that I really like - and close enough to the basil from my garden.
After a small freak out when I thought I had totally messed up my first batch, having learned my lesson, I have run my intended recipe ( a small deviation on SoapQueen's 30/30/30/10.) I was very excited about having used the lye calculator and then ran my EO blend through EOCALC.COM's calculator. I was surprised that lemongrass can run into the danger zone pretty fast (I love lemongrass!). I was more surprised that Basil went off the chart right away - at a 2% usage rate! So, I have a dilemna. The first thing EVERYONE does when they pick up one of my soaps is SMELL it! Everyone who has seen/ smelled my first batch (which I regard as almost fragrance free) has seemed puzzled. So, I want my soap to have a nice strong fragance. If I change the percentages and use less basil, it will no longer smell herbaceous, rather, it starts to smell too sweet. I make soap as a hobby. This soap is just for me, my friends, my family etc.
Question 1: What's wrong with basil? What about it causes it to go off the chart?
Question 2: Would you use the blend I've come up with at 2, 3, 4 or 5%? Or would you be concerned?
I don't even know what 5% would smell like in a soap. How strong, exactly is 5% usage? In M&P, I just put in drops until I can smell it (not very scientific too date-- and no complaints...)
I don't want to blow anyone out of the room, I just want it to smell really good. I assume that the fragrance will evaporate at some point, too?
Question 3: Before any colorant (I will use micas), will this soap base be pretty yellow? From the EOCALC chart, it says Sweet Orange will discolor (orange). I'd been having a problem with bleeding of oranges and reds in my
M&P soap. I thought it was the soap base or the mica's, but now I'm thinking it was the sweet orage. I'd used sweet orange in most of the soaps I made that had orange or red, especially if I used peppermint.
My EO blend has the most Sweet Orange (45%). Exactly how discoloring might this sweet orange be in my soap. I'm wondering if I should try to do shades of orange, etc. Or what would be a reasonable palette?
Question 4: Anyone have any suggestions about anything? After my first batch, some recommended working without colorants or EO's until I got a handle on it. I did learn my lesson about the lye calculator, but, I really do
want to use colorants and EO's. Guess I need to totally trash a batch before I get more cautious....

Thanks in advance!


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I wouldn't. Essential oils are pretty powerful and can cause a reaction if you use to much. I noticed that someone else mentioned infusing an oil. Personally, I think that is a better option. Some of the benefits of herbs may not actually come through in an essential oil. Frankincense is a good example. I believe the boswallic acid (what makes frankincense so good) doesn't even come through in the EO.

You could try infusing an oil, and doing a hot process soap. You would add the infused oils after the cook. The lye is used up by this point, saponification is complete, and you won't have the heat that could potentially destroy any beneficial aspects. This would also add to the super fat and allow you to control what oil is left over.

 

[DeeAnna]

...Not to be lazy but, I think I'll just ask all of you who have read it, what it says ....

I really do understand your point of view, although I'm of the opinion that it's better to "learn how to fish for myself, rather than expect others to give me fish" as the old story goes.

If Tisserand's book is beyond your means, then there are free resources such as EOcalc.com and the IFRA info provided by fragrance suppliers like Nature's Garden. But if those sources don't answer your questions, then I agree it's smart to ask for help.

The people that really bug me are the ones who complain about IFRA but also won't do their own homework. IFRA isn't perfect, but it's better than just guessing.

 

[Zing]

@Zing, thank you. It was exciting (and stressful) to get my second batch under my belt. How do you make your bee balm smell like basil? Do you have a blend you've come up with or do you buy a fragrance that smells like basil?

Bee balm, monarda, is a flower. Awesome blooms in early July that look like fireworks.

 

[paradisi]

That is from skin exposure to properly diluted EOs. All of the "hot" EOs affect me this way (clove, cinnamon, nutmeg, basil, thyme, anise, etc.), plus a few others that are considered "mild," such a tea tree, peppermint, and manuka.

This reaction to properly diluted eo is a reminder to all of us that complying with IFRA by itself, eo or fo, is not sufficient to avoid all problems, and why labeling is so important.

 

[curlycoat2]

@curlycoat2, well, if I'd remembered to bring my sweet orange home, it would have gone great with the red palm oil in my recipe! Ditto on basil being super strong and not a great smell on its own. Definitely the amazing sweet basil smell in my garden.
Well, I'm sure I'll never be a very disciplined a soaper. But, anytime I get a huge spanking, I take a lesson from it. My first batch, I learned to always use a lye and fragrance calculator. This batch, I learned I should listen to scientists who've done valuable research for my benefit.
Finally, I thought it was the mica that caused my batter to trace so fast. Just in the last hour, I learned it was the red palm oil! I only stirred it with a spatula!!
I don't think I saw that warning in any video or recipe I saw that had red palm oil.

You know you will always learn more from mistakes - plant colorants I will tell you are the best teachers, just when you thought you had it nailed, nope it says, forget it. They teach you great patience but they also give the best reward when they go from red, to blue to grey and finally purple (looking at alkanet, gromwell and ratanjot) all in the space of about 24 hours. I have the most fun in my soap journey, I can only wish you the exact same path! Enjoy, at the end of the day I wing it a lot hahaha thats how I know what happens just have fun

 

[akseattle]

Bee balm, monarda, is a flower. Awesome blooms in early July that look like fireworks.

@Zing , ahh , got it. So much to learn...

I wouldn't. Essential oils are pretty powerful and can cause a reaction if you use to much. I noticed that someone else mentioned infusing an oil. Personally, I think that is a better option. Some of the benefits of herbs may not actually come through in an essential oil. Frankincense is a good example. I believe the boswallic acid (what makes frankincense so good) doesn't even come through in the EO.

You could try infusing an oil, and doing a hot process soap. You would add the infused oils after the cook. The lye is used up by this point, saponification is complete, and you won't have the heat that could potentially destroy any beneficial aspects. This would also add to the super fat and allow you to control what oil is left over.

@Jarrett Clay, thank you for your response. If I ever get a handle on cold process soap, maybe I'll try my hand at hot process soap and infusions. For the moment, I've cooled my attachment to basil

I really do understand your point of view, although I'm of the opinion that it's better to "learn how to fish for myself, rather than expect others to give me fish" as the old story goes.

If Tisserand's book is beyond your means, then there are free resources such as EOcalc.com and the IFRA info provided by fragrance suppliers like Nature's Garden. But if those sources don't answer your questions, then I agree it's smart to ask for help.

The people that really bug me are the ones who complain about IFRA but also won't do their own homework. IFRA isn't perfect, but it's better than just guessing.

@DeeAnna , I was being a little flip. I actually spend a fair amount of time researching on the internet and reading about soaping issues to inform myself. I’m sure Tisserand’s is an invaluable resource- for health care professionals and serious soapers. For me, it’s like getting an encyclopedia on cooking to make some fruit pies. It would be good to know all the important vitamins and minerals in the flour, the fruit, etc. But, I really just want to make a reasonably healthy pie that tastes good during my spare time.
And actually, I AM teaching myself how to fish, but in my journey, I’m getting help from all the generous soapers on this forum ! I'm giving the fish to my family and friends!

 

[KiwiMoose]

Just popping back in to say that if it was for me only, I would go over the recommended amount. But I’m naughty like that. And I rarely react to things. And I always think that the recommended amounts are always erring on the side of caution anyway, so there’s wiggle room. But, yeah, as I say, I’m naughty

 

[AliOop]

But, yeah, as I say, I’m naughty

As the song says, “that’s what I like, what I like about you…”

 

[AliensrReal]

If I were to use essential oils in my soap I would follow IFRA guidelines because for some reason pure essential oils actually bother me but not fragrance oils.

I do go over the IFRA for fragrance oils, but I’m not selling and my friends and family have been fine with my soap. I have only gone over by half an ounce and I doubt that is enough to cause anything to happen. I haven’t used anything with an IFRA lower than 3%.

 

[Zing]

Just popping back in to say that if it was for me only, I would go over the recommended amount. But I’m naughty like that. And I rarely react to things. And I always think that the recommended amounts are always erring on the side of caution anyway, so there’s wiggle room. But, yeah, as I say, I’m naughty

Naughty, and perhaps, dirty? You know, in need of soap.

 

[paradisi]

If it was something only for oneself, that you had used enough before to know it didn't irritate -- if that was the reason for the limit-- I don't see a problem. It's not like it's suddenly morphed into a different, more irritating substance. Eo or fo.

But irritation isn't the only reason for those limits; if the fine print was "carcinogenic", that's a whole nother kettle of fish.

And sensitization is too, though less troublesome. That would mean one could suddenly one day have a problem after months or years of no trouble.

So read those allergen & IFRA standards.

 

[akseattle]

Just popping back in to say that if it was for me only, I would go over the recommended amount. But I’m naughty like that. And I rarely react to things. And I always think that the recommended amounts are always erring on the side of caution anyway, so there’s wiggle room. But, yeah, as I say, I’m naughty

Since I posted my question, I've been following IFRA guidelines, although I don't sell my soap, I give it away. But I might have to make a soap "just for me!" What a treat that would be! So far, I've only used my rejects ....

 

[KiwiMoose]

Since I posted my question, I've been following IFRA guidelines, although I don't sell my soap, I give it away. But I might have to make a soap "just for me!" What a treat that would be! So far, I've only used my rejects ....

Do it!