Would these oils work?

[Meldoesasoapy]

I've been soaping for about a year or 2 and haven't strayed from my recipe of 30,30,30,10 percentages with palm, olive, coconut, and sweet almond. This creates a fairly hard bar with lather but melts too quickly so I'm looking to find a more advanced go to recipe. Would the following oils work together well to have lather that stays hard in the shower?

Olive
Palm
Palm kernal
Coconut
Sweet almond
Tallow

Would this recipe still allow me time for swirls? I would say my #1 priority for a go to recipe is that it doesn't melt away in the shower. Any advice?

 

[KiwiMoose]

Increase your stearic and palmitic for longevity, and decrease your lauric/myristic.
CO is sudsy and therefore more soluble, so decrease it. Palm Kenral and CO do the same thing so only use one - I'd use CO but that's up to you.
Tallow is higher in stearic so adding that along with the decrease in CO should make a difference. Why not just to that for now and see if that makes enough difference?
Try:
CO 20%
Palm 20%
Tallow 30%
Olive 20%
Sweet Almond 10%
Tallow is slow moving so that should give you some swirl time.

 

[Meldoesasoapy]

Increase your stearic and palmitic for longevity, and decrease your lauric/myristic.
CO is sudsy and therefore more soluble, so decrease it. Palm Kenral and CO do the same thing so only use one - I'd use CO but that's up to you.
Tallow is higher in stearic so adding that along with the decrease in CO should make a difference. Why not just to that for now and see if that makes enough difference?
Try:
CO 20%
Palm 20%
Tallow 30%
Olive 20%
Sweet Almond 10%
Tallow is slow moving so that should give you some swirl time.

That's very helpful! I'll give that recipe a try. Everyone talks about adding "harder oils" to make a harder bar so I've been thinking that decreasing the CO would make it softer, so thanks for letting me know!
Also, it's just beef tallow that is used right? The idea of animal fat is kinda off putting to me, though I'm willing to try. But is there a non beefy alternative to tallow that would allow for the same hardness?

 

[Marsi]

cocoa butter
gives kidney fat tallow hardness

cocoa butter is expensive

 

[KiwiMoose]

That's very helpful! I'll give that recipe a try. Everyone talks about adding "harder oils" to make a harder bar so I've been thinking that decreasing the CO would make it softer, so thanks for letting me know!
Also, it's just beef tallow that is used right? The idea of animal fat is kinda off putting to me, though I'm willing to try. But is there a non beefy alternative to tallow that would allow for the same hardness?

Yes I use soy wax in mine because I don't use animal fats. I use 20% soy wax and 10% Shea Butter. As Marsi states, cocoa butter is another option, and it's what i started out using b ut it is quite expensive so i switched to soy wax with a little bit of shea ( not as expensive as cocoa butter).
Don't confuse hardness with longevity. CO is hard, but because it's high in lauric acid it creates a lot of bubbles and therefore doesn't last as long ( more bubbles means more solubility).

 

[Cat&Oak]

cocoa butter
gives kidney fat tallow hardness

cocoa butter is expensive

And going to get more expensive unfortunately.

 

[Meldoesasoapy]

Yes I use soy wax in mine because I don't use animal fats. I use 20% soy wax and 10% Shea Butter. As Marsi states, cocoa butter is another option, and it's what i started out using b ut it is quite expensive so i switched to soy wax with a little bit of shea ( not as expensive as cocoa butter).
Don't confuse hardness with longevity. CO is hard, but because it's high in lauric acid it creates a lot of bubbles and therefore doesn't last as long ( more bubbles means more solubility).

Can you tell me where you get your soy wax?

 

[KiwiMoose]

Can you tell me where you get your soy wax?

If you are in USA - search GW415. I'm not sure of US suppliers.

 

[earlene]

Can you tell me where you get your soy wax?

GW415 or 125 (another brand that is the same as GW415) can be purchased in the US from these vendors linked below (& others if you continue the search). Shipping costs vary, so I choose my vendor based on the lowest bottom-line cost, which includes shipping. Shipping may be cheaper for a vendor closer to your location, but not necessarily. And when re-ordering, I find that calculating shipping each time may often reveal that another vendor is more affordable at a different time.

https://www.theflamingcandle.com/soy-wax/https://www.lonestarcandlesupply.com/golden-brands-415-soy-container-wax.htmlhttps://voyageursoapandcandleusa.com/products/golden-brands-akosoy-415-soy-container-candle-waxhttps://www.amazon.com/Natural-Gold...1&keywords=Soy+Wax+415&qid=1633349846&sr=8-11
There are many other options where to purchase; I listed only a few showing the best current price of 10 pounds (prior to shipping.)

 

[LynetteO]

If you are in USA - search GW415. I'm not sure of US suppliers.

My 5lb bag arrived & I’ve yet to use it but am really excited to do so! Can’t decide on a recipe quite yet, but soon. Very Soon

 

[Zany_in_CO]

I'm looking to find a more advanced go to recipe. ... I would say my #1 priority for a go to recipe is that it doesn't melt away in the shower. Any advice?

BASIC TRINITY OF OILS

Once you understand the 3 legs of soapmaking oils, you can tweak to your heart's content to find the combination that works best for you!

TIP: When you have a moment, please go to the Introduction Forum and tell us as much as you care to share about yourself, but especially about your soap making experience. This will help us to help you when questions or problems arise.

Before heading off to the Wild Blue Yonder of adding various additives to your soap and rather pricey techniques of artisan soapmaking, you might want to read this thread -- it's long but fairly entertaining and definitely helpful for where you seem to be at the moment.

WHAT ADVICE WOULD YOU GIVE TO YOUR BEGINNING SOAPING SELF?

ETA: I would also recommend, to advance your general knowledge of soapmaking, you take some time to browse

@DeeAnna 's SOAPY STUFF

There you will find a wealth of excellent information for Beginners. Be sure to bookmark it for future reference.

 

[Meldoesasoapy]

BASIC TRINITY OF OILS

Once you understand the 3 legs of soapmaking oils, you can tweak to your heart's content to find the combination that works best for you!

TIP: When you have a moment, please go to the Introduction Forum and tell us as much as you care to share about yourself, but especially about your soap making experience. This will help us to help you when questions or problems arise.

Before heading off to the Wild Blue Yonder of adding various additives to your soap and rather pricey techniques of artisan soapmaking, you might want to read this thread -- it's long but fairly entertaining and definitely helpful for where you seem to be at the moment.

WHAT ADVICE WOULD YOU GIVE TO YOUR BEGINNING SOAPING SELF?

ETA: I would also recommend, to advance your general knowledge of soapmaking, you take some time to browse

@DeeAnna 's SOAPY STUFF

There you will find a wealth of excellent information for Beginners. Be sure to bookmark it for future reference.

There's so much good stuff here, omg thank you!

 

[Cat&Oak]

There's so much good stuff here, omg thank you!

Our Zany is amazingly helpful

 

[Meldoesasoapy]

Ok, would this recipe create a bar that would not melt away? I'm trying to stick to 60:40 on hard vs soft oils while also steering away from lard/tallow (for now) :

Palm 35%
Coconut 15%
Olive 25%
Sweet almond 10%
Shea butter 5%
Soy wax 5%
Castor 5%

 

[Zany_in_CO]

Palm 35%
Coconut 15%
Olive 25%
Sweet almond 10%
Shea butter 5%
Soy wax 5%
Castor 5%

It's okay, but for now, I would try a batch without the 5% soy wax and 5% castor and add 10% to the Coconut. Why use 7 ingredients when 5 will do quite nicely?

Palm 35% + Shea butter 5% = 40%
Coconut 25%
Olive 25% + Sweet almond 10% = 35%

This configuration gives you a more balanced bar with decent values for hardness/lather; cleansing; emolience/ contioning; and an INS value of 157 (closer to so-called "perfect" INS 160. You should have no problem unmolding the next day and cutting shortly thereafter.

 

[Meldoesasoapy]

It's okay, but for now, I would try a batch without the 5% soy wax and 5% castor and add 10% to the Coconut. Why use 7 ingredients when 5 will do quite nicely?

Palm 35% + Shea butter 5% = 40%
Coconut 25%
Olive 25% + Sweet almond 10% = 35%

This configuration gives you a more balanced bar with decent values for hardness/lather; cleansing; emolience/ contioning; and an INS value of 157 (closer to so-called "perfect" INS 160. You should have no problem unmolding the next day and cutting shortly thereafter.

My only issue with that is I normally use coconut oil at 25-30% and it's far too soluble and melty for my liking.

 

[Zany_in_CO]

My only issue with that is I normally use coconut oil at 25-30% and it's far too soluble and melty for my liking.

Not to worry. While I understand your concern, for me, it's all about the combination of fats/oils/butters and how they work with each other. You might want to make a small batch of each recipe to compare. Both are quite nice, but for different reasons. I think you will be pleasantly surprised.

It's good to test what you learn here to negate or confirm the validity of the advice. Experience truly is the best teacher.

 

[Meldoesasoapy]

Yes I use soy wax in mine because I don't use animal fats. I use 20% soy wax and 10% Shea Butter. As Marsi states, cocoa butter is another option, and it's what i started out using b ut it is quite expensive so i switched to soy wax with a little bit of shea ( not as expensive as cocoa butter).
Don't confuse hardness with longevity. CO is hard, but because it's high in lauric acid it creates a lot of bubbles and therefore doesn't last as long ( more bubbles means more solubility).

My soy wax comes tomorrow!! Can you please tell me, I'm going to do either 5% or 10% soy wax and I'm wondering which would be better:
5% SW with 15% coconut (among my other oils)
Or 10% SW and 10% coconut?
Also, can you let me know how to use soy wax? Do I just melt the wax and add to my bowl of oils and then add lye just like I always would?
Thanks!

 

[KiwiMoose]

Ok, would this recipe create a bar that would not melt away? I'm trying to stick to 60:40 on hard vs soft oils while also steering away from lard/tallow (for now) :

Palm 35%
Coconut 15%
Olive 25%
Sweet almond 10%
Shea butter 5%
Soy wax 5%
Castor 5%

I'd use 15% CO
and 15% soy
25% palm
5% Shea

Melt all those together

then add your liquid oils to that, then mix your lye solution.

But that's just me ( I don't use palm so would have no qualms in replacing it entirely with something else)

Palm, Soywax, and Shea will all contribute to your bar longevity, CO will not.

 

[Meldoesasoapy]

I'd use 15% CO
and 15% soy
25% palm
5% Shea

Melt all those together

then add your liquid oils to that, then mix your lye solution.

But that's just me ( I don't use palm so would have no qualms in replacing it entirely with something else)

Palm, Soywax, and Shea will all contribute to your bar longevity, CO will not.

Ok! I think I'm planning on using olive, sweet almond (and I'm curious as to like, 5% castor just to experiment) thanks for your help! I hope I can make it work, they're going to be my holiday gifts