will this recipe work?

[Eve]

Hello,

I'm going to be making my third batch of soap soon, and I'm wondering whether my recipe will work. I used soapcalc, and it says it's too soft. But it classifies olive oil as soft, and olive oil will make a hard soap after a while, so... I think I should be okay?
recipe is:
25% sunflower oil
37% olive oil
30% coconut oil
8% castor oil

The coconut oil is not pure (haven't seen it around here) but something called 'creamed coconut' which is a sort of butter, and has 68 percent fats. (so the actual wait of that stuff going in will be higher than calculated with soap calc, to allow for the stuff that isn't fat). I have used this before and it worked.
I am also infusing the sunflower and olive oil with cinnamon, and will add some cloves and pine essential oil.

 

[Saswede]

It's difficult to say what the impact of the non-saponifiable part of your coconut oil will be, Eve ...... But if this was my recipe I'd probably lower the castor oil to about 5%, and perhaps also use less sunflower oil (10-15%) and make up the difference with OO. That way your bar should be harder, but with the higher OO content you may need to cure a little longer than usual.


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[Obsidian]

Eve, what country are you in? If you are in America, you can find coconut oil at walmart. I've seen the coconut cream at the grocery store, its basically like peanut butter but made with ground coconut instead. I could see it working as a additive but I wouldn't replace a large amount of regular coconut oil with it.

 

[Eve]

I'm in the Netherlands... so no walmarts around.

I did a soap with the coconut stuff earlier, coconut and olive oil, and that turned out fine! I can't find normal coconut oil (though wouldn't it be a fat, not oil?) don't want to use palm oil because of the rainforest, and don't want to use lard etc. because I'm vegetarian. Are there other alternatives for hard oils? (I also can't buy crisco or canola around here).

Now I was mainly worried because soapcalc said it would be to soft.

Why would I decrease the castor oil? I kept it as low as this because it's expensive (3 euros for 150 ml), but it does make a good soap, right?

I think I will put in more olive, soapcalc keeps saying it will be too soft, but I think it's just wrong!

 

[dagmar88]

Hello,

I'm going to be making my third batch of soap soon, and I'm wondering whether my recipe will work. I used soapcalc, and it says it's too soft. But it classifies olive oil as soft, and olive oil will make a hard soap after a while, so... I think I should be okay?
recipe is:
25% sunflower oil
37% olive oil
30% coconut oil
8% castor oil

The coconut oil is not pure (haven't seen it around here) but something called 'creamed coconut' which is a sort of butter, and has 68 percent fats. (so the actual wait of that stuff going in will be higher than calculated with soap calc, to allow for the stuff that isn't fat). I have used this before and it worked.
I am also infusing the sunflower and olive oil with cinnamon, and will add some cloves and pine essential oil.

Coconut cream is thickened coconut milk. It won't give you the hardness or lather of coconut oil and it doesn't have the same SAP value.

 

[Obsidian]

Too much castor can make a sticky soap. Try using around 5%, it will still give good bubbles and be conditioning. Increasing the OO is a good idea and yes, it will make a hard bard.
Coconut oil is sold at 76* F but any warmer, it will melt. I did a bit of looking on google and it seems some health food stores in the Netherlands may sell coconut oil. It might be easier if you just order it online.
You can find sustainable palm kernel oil but it will also have to be bought online. Unfortunately, the only good replacements for coconut or palm would be animal fats.
You could always do a 100% olive oil soap but it needs a year to cure properly and some people don not care much for its some what slimy feeling.

 

[Eve]

I'll go on a hunt for coconut oil then! Online is still expensive, but better than in health stores... and I'll see if I can find some indian/surinam stores around here or check the international/turkish store close to me.

 

[judymoody]

Here's how you can make your coconut cream work for you:

Look at the nutritional information on the can and calculate the weight of the fat in the can (it should indicate grams per serving). Subtract that from the total weight. The balance of the coconut cream is sugars and water. You can deduct some of that weight from your water amount to dissolve your lye.

So lets assume, as an example, you have a recipe that calls for 150 grams of lye and 350 grams of water. You could dissolve the lye in an equal amount of water (150 grams/150 grams). The remaining 200 grams could come from your coconut milk liquid (minus the fat or oil weight).

I hope this makes sense. Just make sure that your water weight is equal to your lye (or slightly higher) or your lye might not dissolve fully.

 

[Saswede]

Eve, why don't you try to find an Asian supermarket locally? They almost always have coconut oil, and with the large Indonesian community in the Netherlands, I'd guess there should be some available. If you want to order larger quantities though, you can try buying online from stores selling soap supplies.


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[Stinkydancer]

Too much castor can make a sticky soap. Try using around 5%, it will still give good bubbles and be conditioning. Increasing the OO is a good idea and yes, it will make a hard bard.
Coconut oil is sold at 76* F but any warmer, it will melt. I did a bit of looking on google and it seems some health food stores in the Netherlands may sell coconut oil. It might be easier if you just order it online.
You can find sustainable palm kernel oil but it will also have to be bought online. Unfortunately, the only good replacements for coconut or palm would be animal fats.
You could always do a 100% olive oil soap but it needs a year to cure properly and some people don not care much for its some what slimy feeling.

Everyone says that you will have sticky soap with Castor. I have been using 10% Castor in my soap for years and have never had a sticky soap. I would lower the sunflower as well and send it to Olive Oil. Coconut I keep at 20-25 because any higher is drying to me. Just some food for thought.

 

[dagmar88]

Eve, why don't you try to find an Asian supermarket locally? They almost always have coconut oil, and with the large Indonesian community in the Netherlands, I'd guess there should be some available.

The only kind I've been able to find locally comes in glass jars and is quite expensive.
If you're close to Germany, you'll be able to find it in most large German supermarkets very cheaply.
Online I think Avantgarde Cosmetics is on the cheaper side.
www.gracefruit.com has a nice selection of oils and butters and could be worth it, even with shipping from the UK.

 

[Eve]

Here's how you can make your coconut cream work for you:

Look at the nutritional information on the can and calculate the weight of the fat in the can (it should indicate grams per serving). Subtract that from the total weight. The balance of the coconut cream is sugars and water. You can deduct some of that weight from your water amount to dissolve your lye.

So lets assume, as an example, you have a recipe that calls for 150 grams of lye and 350 grams of water. You could dissolve the lye in an equal amount of water (150 grams/150 grams). The remaining 200 grams could come from your coconut milk liquid (minus the fat or oil weight).

I hope this makes sense. Just make sure that your water weight is equal to your lye (or slightly higher) or your lye might not dissolve fully.

Judy, this is exactly what I was going to do! It has 68 percent fats, and I use that in calculating the final weight. That is also what I did in the last soap I did like this.

And Dagmar88, my parents live half a kilometre from germany, so I will check that out when I'm there!

 

[Eve]

I ended up finding coconut oil (at 4,25 for 500 ml) and using the following recipe:
20% sunflower oil
46% olive oil
27% coconut oil
7% castor oil.
5% SF

It's still really soft. I had a hard time taking it out of the molds, but that's because I used an unlined hard plastic mold and silicone cupcaken mold (oakleaf and pumpkin shaped). I would have been able to get the shaped soaps out sooner, but some of the soap was sticking and I didn't want to ruin the design... finally got them all out today, I made the soap on monday.

The cinnamon scent came through, though subtle. I can also smell the clove (added 10 drops essential oil) but not the pine or sandalwood (6 / 2 drops). Apparantly you're not even supposed to measure in drops! (I made perfume before, and this much could scent an entire bottle... but not soap, apparantly).

I tried a bit of the soap, and it has wonderful lather! But it's not done curing yet.

For my next soap, I think I will bring the castor oil down even further to 5%, and exchange some sunflower (and maybe some olive) oil for rice bran, in hopes of getting a harder bar.

 

[dagmar88]

I ended up finding coconut oil (at 4,25 for 500 ml) and using the following recipe:
20% sunflower oil
46% olive oil
27% coconut oil
7% castor oil.
5% SF

It's still really soft. I had a hard time taking it out of the molds, but that's because I used an unlined hard plastic mold and silicone cupcaken mold (oakleaf and pumpkin shaped).

It's the sunflower and olive oil combo. It'll probably take a while to harden and it won't last very long.
I'd replace the sunflower with palm, lard or tallow for hardness and a nice white bar.

 

[Eve]

I knew sunflower oil would make a soft bar, but I thought coconut and olive would counter that... Is there something in the combination that changes the characteristics of the oils?
Could I also switch out the sunflower with rice bran? Haven't been able to find sustainable palm oil for cheap yet... and I'm on a student's buget

 

[Lidyax]

I knew sunflower oil would make a soft bar, but I thought coconut and olive would counter that... Is there something in the combination that changes the characteristics of the oils?
Could I also switch out the sunflower with rice bran? Haven't been able to find sustainable palm oil for cheap yet... and I'm on a student's buget

Rice bran makes really great soap. My earlier soap has 30% rice bran, 30% coconut, 30% palm and it's great! I can't say if you want to replace palm though. My recipe always have palm in it because it's very cheap here. But you can probably use tallow or lard?


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[Eve]

I guess being vegetarian and nature-conscious complicates things a lot in soapmaking, huh I don't want to use tallow or lard, I might use palm oil if I can find sustainable, but that's really expensive and with the corruption in the countries where it's produced you can never be sure they didn't cut down rainforest for it anyway... I probably use products with palm oil in them in everyday life, disguised as vegetable oils, but I don't want to actively contribute to them.

 

[dagmar88]

http://www.gracefruit.com/butters-oils-and-waxes/butters-and-solid-oils/organic-palm-oil.html

 

[djk17]

According to this link the Netherlands is the biggest importer/exporter of coconut oil in the E.U.
http://www.cbi.eu/system/files/marketintel/2011_Coconut_oil_in_the_Netherlands.pdf

Can you get "Ceres" or "Nusetta" in the section of the grocery store where the butters and margarines are? They're wrapped in foil like butter is, and are the same size.

Aldi/Hofer carries Nusetta brand, but not always. It's worth asking. In Vienna I just got some for ,99/250g. At Billa and Merkur it's 1,49/250g

I did a quick search online of the expat Holland forums (googled "kokosolie Netherlands expats") but didn't see anything overly useful but your coconut cream came up. I have some German and no Dutch but I did find several discussion groups including Facebook pages. If I were you I would continue to google for it--I am on my smartphone and it's not so convenient for extensive research.
My point is, I wonder--if it is with the butters/animal fats and if you don't normally buy animal products you may not have looked closely at everything in that section. Of course, if you have, then please forgive my presumption in assuming otherwise!

 

[dagmar88]

That's for use by multinationals, no supermarkets carry coconut oil over here.
Just Asian food stores and health food stores.