Will I get in trouble for this?

[samirish]

I am gearing up for the farmers market which starts in spring. I had planned on adding bubble bar slices that look like a jelly roll slice. Ive been making them and storing them so I have enough when the market starts.

Then I read that L*SH has a patent on them. Can I still sell mine? For those of you that make and sell these, have you ever had a problem?

http://www.lushusa.com/The-Inventio...bble-bars,en_US,pg.html?fid=behind-the-scenes

 

[Obsidian]

You might want to look into what is patented, is it the formula, the name, the design? Once you know that, you will know how you can label yours.

 

[hippiechic]

Here is the link to their patent.

http://www.faqs.org/patents/app/20120040919

http://www.faqs.org/patents/app/20120034174

The first is for a scrub in the same formula and the second includes as a bath foam.

If you have changed even one ingredient, or volume of a liquid in the recipe, that makes your product / recipe unique and you can market it as such; providing you haven't copied their trademarked processes. Please read them. You should be able to sell yours if you make them look like your own, use your own verbiage, and do not use her recipe as indicated in the formula as the patent indicates.

Best wishes!

 

[samirish]

Thank you hippie chick. Since I dont know their formula, Im sure something in mine is different than theirs, thus making my unique. That makes me feel better.

 

[cmzaha]

https://www.google.com/patents/CA23...ntor:Ambrosen&ei=pfzfUpqDN8iAogSkwIHIDA&cl=en

 

[lsg]

Since several bath and body suppliers have posted videos on how to make bubble bars, I seriously doubt that you will be violating a patent, if you do not use the same name as the Lush product. Remember, many suppliers of fragrance oils supply dups of name brand FOs.

 

[The Efficacious Gentleman]

Thank you hippie chick. Since I dont know their formula, Im sure something in mine is different than theirs, thus making my unique. That makes me feel better.

This is a little bit dangerous - if you knew the recipe THEN you could be sure that something in yours is different.

As it is, you think/believe/hope that it is.

 

[Lindy]

There are a lot of people that sell Bubble Bars and they even use the name. If you want to sell yours then choose a different name. The ingredients are listed in the Patent with ranges so change one ingredient and name it something else....

 

[AnnaMarie]

Jelly rolls bubble bars are not unique to Lush, so I imagine the patent is for the recipe. If your recipe is the same then just tweak a bit
Cheers!
Anna Marie

 

[judymoody]

There have been similar discussions about Bath Bombs.

I would change the name - call them bubbling bars or something like that and you should be fine.

 

[savonierre]

Change up the name and you are good to go.
Bubbles Up
Bar of Bubbles
Solid Bubble Bath

 

[la-rene]

Unfortunately, I don't think that changing the name or even changing the amounts of the same ingredients will help. They have patented solid bubble bath bars... just making them (in your recipe) for sale is a violation.

Line 20. A process for the production of a surfactant product as defined in claim 1 (the recipe) comprising the steps of: i) preparing a mixture comprising a surfactant, sodium carbonate and cream of tartar; ii) allowing the mixture of step i) to solidify.

They have also patented the percentages of each ingredient in such a wide amount, that any tweaking would still be infringement. Lush has also covered anything you might want to put in yours to make it special too. They have covered their bases pretty well.

However, since everyone is making them, I'd say they'd only send a cease and desist if you go nation wide or global (ie sell them at Target). But, don't quote me on that.

If I were making them, I would definitely not call them bubble bars or even solid bubble bath and definitely would make them a different shape and find something other than cream of tartar.

Notice, there is not another large retailer selling solid bubble bath bars, anywhere.

Just my 2cents.
​

 

[la-rene]

FYI: Lush also just applied to patent foaming bath fizzies too in June of 2011.... it was published in Oct 2013. I'm not sure how to go about it, but if people have been making foaming bath fizzies longer than 2011, they should object to that patent.

 

[samirish]

I fear there may come a day when only the big guys will be allowed to do anything and the small guys will be left with nothing.

 

[hippiechic]

Samirish, you're right about the little guy... if the little guy doesn't keep trying then there will always be someone bigger to tell him no because they want to do it; and progress will never be made, New products never created, New ideas never shared. As far as the patent, you can only do what you think is best without seeking legal advice. We can all tell you our 2 cents and experience / advice but it is up to you. If you have the funds, or know a patent attorney, you may consider consulting them. I worked with patents and patent attorneys in the past and know it can be laborious to define the lines of breach when it's unintentional; however, it's not taken lightly. If you decide to read the entire patent and know what you are dealing with, and know your product is unique, change the name, and enjoy yourself at the sale. My fear is that you posted it on the internet. I really hope all your hard work is rewarded with a great turnout.

 

[lsg]

A lot of people are still selling bubble bars so Lush must not have a complete patent on the making and selling of bubble bars:

https://www.etsy.com/search?q=bubble bar&view_type=gallery&ship_to=US

http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_s...le+bar&ie=UTF8&qid=1390844034&rnid=2941120011

 

[The Efficacious Gentleman]

I think the posts that point out the thought process for Lush and their legal people are the ones closest to the mark -

Damage to the brand (including but not limited to monetary) vs cost of stopping it (including but not limited to monetary!) = whether or not they bother.

 

[TVivian]

Soap Queen has a "solid bubble bath" tutorial. I think they'd go after her for stealing their idea first since hers looks exactly like theirs haha.. http://www.soapqueen.com/bath-and-b...w-to-make-solid-bubble-bath-on-soap-queen-tv/

 

[DeeAnna]

There have been some kerfluffles lately about trademarking common names. The most recent one in the soaping community was someone trademarking the name "Soap Log" and threatening sellers on eBay and Etsy with legal action if they used "soap log" as a generic term to describe "a large block of soap before it is cut into bars". That person withdrew her trademark claim.

There's a similar brushfire going on right now in the herb crafting community. A business trademarked the name "Fire Cider" and is aggressively pursuing other herbalists who use the term. (I understand fire cider is an old name used for any one of many spicy concoctions made with vinegar and herbs.)

Not sure what Lush might do to protect its patent. Maybe nothing as long as the small fry selling similar products don't make a lot of waves. That's the usual thing, but obviously it isn't always the case.

Ugh. :?

 

[la-rene]

Sounds to me like the US Patents & Trademarks Offices are not doing their homework to see if the names are already in common use. That is a huge problem, in my opinion.