I have a few ideas and a few provens and its quite possible that there ingredient list is accurate, but it may all boil down to the fact that legally they dont have to list all their ingredients - so there may be something else in there.
Why is Dr Bronner Baby Mild so soft
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That is true as well. However once you are certified organic like Dr Bronner it may be a bit trickier. So far, if this is the case that the do not list all the ingredients, I would guess they use some or maybe a lot of fractionated CO along with virgin CO so that there isn't too much lauric acid. Any other ideas?
True. Certified organic products might have to tell you there's sodium lactate as an ingredient, but whether it's derived from corn or beets they don't have to tell you that.
Also I thought the regs on listing ingredients for non-food products were much looser than for food.
ok after some research I found out that they used to list aloe vera as an ingredient. They also listed olive fatty acids (squalane I assume) and I even found a different list which listed glycerin as an ingredient.
So maybe that one of those 3, aloe vera, perhaps as an extract, glycerin from coconut and squalane. It would make more sense with their current list of ingredient if it was just glycerin. I never added glycerin to my soap, I do not know if this would improve them enough.
So maybe that one of those 3, aloe vera, perhaps as an extract, glycerin from coconut and squalane. It would make more sense with their current list of ingredient if it was just glycerin. I never added glycerin to my soap, I do not know if this would improve them enough.
I make a cloudy OO 85: CO 15 liquid soap with 5% SF that is much more dying than Dr. B.
Is there any way to make Liquid or Bar soap not drying without upping the SF?
Upping the SF is a real pain because it gives that "hard to wash off" feeling that turns people completely off, especially with liquid soap.
Is there any way to make Liquid or Bar soap not drying without upping the SF?
Upping the SF is a real pain because it gives that "hard to wash off" feeling that turns people completely off, especially with liquid soap.
It's good to see I'm not the only one looking for clarity on this. I don't know why but I had success making a clear LS at 6% SF it is 62% OO (EXTRAVIRGIN), 26% CO (RBD), Avocado oil (refined) 7%, Hemp 3.3% and jojoba (clear) 1.6%
it's a success in the sense that it is clear, but a complete failure because it is very drying, not usable because I'm used to dr Bronner which is nice to my skin. My soap is more than 2 months old and I doubt it will get to be usable at the 4 months mark. I have done many experiments using less coconut and more gentle oils and all of my attempts produced a soap that is too drying, so much that I have to keep buying dr Bronner's soap. I am not willing to use anything more harsh than it. My body simply disagrees. I even made some bar soaps at 26% SF, even one at 50%, yes 50% (this one was pure virgin org CO) and it came out as too drying as well, and a bit too soft of course. Interesting thing is that it was drying even though it did not clean well, like it left my body hairs greasy.
I just got a reply from Dr Bronner and they are telling me that there is no more aloe in their soap and that they do not add extra glycerin. They omitted to reply to me about the olive fatty acids which were once on their labels. I asked them more about it, maybe they will reply and I'll let you know. Olive fatty acids (squalane) might be the thing in there which makes it non-drying, it could very well be just labelled as olive oil as olive contains squalane, so if you add some to your olive oil I guess you could not say it.
I found a source (saffireblue) which says it take less than 5mg of KOH to saponify 1gr of squalane. So we are talking of an extremely low SAP number here (SAP KOH 0.005). It is almost totally unsaponifiable, so it would make sense that by adding about 2-5% of this to a soap recipe that the soap would become the best ever, would you agree? I guess not since I searched over the internet and adding squalane in a soap recipe seems to be unheard of. Some talk about lotions but never soap.
I do not know how old is this version of their soap, but it must be prior to 2008 (when I started using their soap) got the pic from ebay, it's actually on sale from an old stock.
it's a success in the sense that it is clear, but a complete failure because it is very drying, not usable because I'm used to dr Bronner which is nice to my skin. My soap is more than 2 months old and I doubt it will get to be usable at the 4 months mark. I have done many experiments using less coconut and more gentle oils and all of my attempts produced a soap that is too drying, so much that I have to keep buying dr Bronner's soap. I am not willing to use anything more harsh than it. My body simply disagrees. I even made some bar soaps at 26% SF, even one at 50%, yes 50% (this one was pure virgin org CO) and it came out as too drying as well, and a bit too soft of course. Interesting thing is that it was drying even though it did not clean well, like it left my body hairs greasy.
I just got a reply from Dr Bronner and they are telling me that there is no more aloe in their soap and that they do not add extra glycerin. They omitted to reply to me about the olive fatty acids which were once on their labels. I asked them more about it, maybe they will reply and I'll let you know. Olive fatty acids (squalane) might be the thing in there which makes it non-drying, it could very well be just labelled as olive oil as olive contains squalane, so if you add some to your olive oil I guess you could not say it.
I found a source (saffireblue) which says it take less than 5mg of KOH to saponify 1gr of squalane. So we are talking of an extremely low SAP number here (SAP KOH 0.005). It is almost totally unsaponifiable, so it would make sense that by adding about 2-5% of this to a soap recipe that the soap would become the best ever, would you agree? I guess not since I searched over the internet and adding squalane in a soap recipe seems to be unheard of. Some talk about lotions but never soap.
I do not know how old is this version of their soap, but it must be prior to 2008 (when I started using their soap) got the pic from ebay, it's actually on sale from an old stock.
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FGOriold
Well-Known Member
If olive squalane is added up front with the base oils, then it would be saponified with the rest of the oils and not create a superfat. There are water soluble olive oil esters that can be used to add emoliency and such to liquid soap after dilution to make it more gentle.
Another thing people need to keep in mind when evaluating how harsh or gentle a soap is, especially when trying to compare them, is the soap concentration. So many people try to add as little water as possible to their soap to create a thicker product that they don't realize how concentrated a soap they are ending up with. The more concentrated your liquid soap is, the harsher it will be and you have to learn to use less of a more concentrated product - no matter what the formula is.
Another thing people need to keep in mind when evaluating how harsh or gentle a soap is, especially when trying to compare them, is the soap concentration. So many people try to add as little water as possible to their soap to create a thicker product that they don't realize how concentrated a soap they are ending up with. The more concentrated your liquid soap is, the harsher it will be and you have to learn to use less of a more concentrated product - no matter what the formula is.
I don't think so because squalane is unsaponifiable, almost completely. It is very particular. A 0.005 KOH SAP value tells you there ain't much to be turned into soap there. It is unsaponifiable.
I think you are really unto something here. What are the name of these esters? PEG-7 olivate? Olivem300? do you know of a good supplier for this? and have you tried it in soap? I can see how Olive fatty acids on an ingredients list could mean Olive ester as they are fatty acids esters. Maybe someday soon, I'll add all of these positive little things that can make the soap more gentle to my formulas to create the ultimate soap experience. (squalane, Peg-7 olivate, aloe 200x, glycerin) & BOOM! I guess then I would have something quite outstanding.
As far as the concentration, Dr Bronner is 61% water for the liquid (close to solidification point), and 5% water for the bars according to Lisa Bronner. I took that into consideration already.
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I don't understand how Dr Bronners can be soft and non drying, and yet cleans clothes my delicates without residue. But it's not tough on stains that the only problem. I have to use a separate stain bar which I'm trying to make. I love using Almond and Rose one as a face cleanser, body wash and shampoo.
Does anyone at all have a rough idea of % of ingredients and superfat amounts. Otherwise have may a dupe. PH is about 8.5 for the baby one. I guess it's a trade secret.
Does anyone have a hack to make Liquid soap close to Dr bronners I just love their soap.
It's cutting enough to wash clothes and other things and gentle enough for hands and body wash.
Does anyone at all have a rough idea of % of ingredients and superfat amounts. Otherwise have may a dupe. PH is about 8.5 for the baby one. I guess it's a trade secret.
Does anyone have a hack to make Liquid soap close to Dr bronners I just love their soap.
It's cutting enough to wash clothes and other things and gentle enough for hands and body wash.
I don't care for Dr. B's soaps, they are way to stripping for my hands. And not good enough to really clean my laundry. There are several threads that contain good recipes. I suggest a 100% CO, 0% SF for laundry. I also suggest IL's LGS for hands, her recipe/method gives awesome results, look at post #8:
http://www.soapmakingforum.com/showthread.php?t=46114
http://www.soapmakingforum.com/showthread.php?t=46114
Dahila
Well-Known Member
I use it in my bug sprays, with essential oils, of course not on me, but the veggies and flowers. It works with combination of EO for spider spray. I used DR bronner diluted on my skin, and I could almost hear my skin cracking. I tried to use it in Foaming pomp bottle , the same, My liquid soap (thanks to Susie and Irishlass) is not drying.
Even my gardener soap with 30% of coconut and pumice , is not as drying as Dr. Bronner soaps are, I have somewhere few of his bars, no one wants to use it. A bottle of lemon liquid soap I used for cleaning ...........waste of money
Good marketing will make everyone to say good stuff about it. It is brainwashing what they do
Even my gardener soap with 30% of coconut and pumice , is not as drying as Dr. Bronner soaps are, I have somewhere few of his bars, no one wants to use it. A bottle of lemon liquid soap I used for cleaning ...........waste of money
Good marketing will make everyone to say good stuff about it. It is brainwashing what they do
I ve never used Dr Bronners liquid soap as it is difficult to be found in my country. I read that many love it but I 've also read others find it harsh on their skin and mainly a marketing trick soap...
I would like to try this soap only to check its lather ability and how it feels on my skin...
Αlso it makes me wonder the fact they dont use any preservative on the label only tocopherol which is an antioxidant not preservative...
I would like to try this soap only to check its lather ability and how it feels on my skin...
Αlso it makes me wonder the fact they dont use any preservative on the label only tocopherol which is an antioxidant not preservative...
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Dahila
Well-Known Member
You are in Greece, I do believe u can buy Dr. Bronner over there, I bet you would not like it, People who made a soap once do not go back to commercial soaps and Dr. Bronner is comercial soap called Pure Castille , which is bs castille is 100% OO.
Arimara
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I have to agree. I only pick up commercial bars to see what is in them. Some of my former bars are actually soap while others have a few extra goodies in them harder water systems. I still want to try a few that I've seen in my drug store since they smell interesting and have and scent undertone not unlike the lye heavy castiles I made a while back.
My review of B's:
-The lather is exceptional, even 100% CO/0% SF doesn't give the same results, so the combo they use does something right
-The feel is exceptional, once you lather up, it feels full, soft and has a lot of "body"
-Can't say if it's drying or not, because I also can't feel any drying effects when using 100% CO LS. But overall yeah it probably is to some people
-Cleans really well, obviously, high coconut content
-Price is quite steep
I've attempted to figure out what their recipe is (examine label and then process of elimination/trial and error) and it is 70% or more CO. My latest batch is 70/25/5 coconut/olive/hemp and it is still darker than Bronners and lathers/feels a bit more poorly. B's is probably 80% or something CO, small wonder some people find it irritating. Those who don't (like me and some people from this thread) find it to be awesome, for reasons above.
From my point of view, I can see why their formula is popular. Much of their success comes from other sources though, not directly from their soap, as they are quite active in making positive social change, namely towards the end of discrimination/unnecessary violence (fair wages and working conditions, veganism, etc, and people generally like to support companies that are in it for more than just the profit).
-The lather is exceptional, even 100% CO/0% SF doesn't give the same results, so the combo they use does something right
-The feel is exceptional, once you lather up, it feels full, soft and has a lot of "body"
-Can't say if it's drying or not, because I also can't feel any drying effects when using 100% CO LS. But overall yeah it probably is to some people
-Cleans really well, obviously, high coconut content
-Price is quite steep
I've attempted to figure out what their recipe is (examine label and then process of elimination/trial and error) and it is 70% or more CO. My latest batch is 70/25/5 coconut/olive/hemp and it is still darker than Bronners and lathers/feels a bit more poorly. B's is probably 80% or something CO, small wonder some people find it irritating. Those who don't (like me and some people from this thread) find it to be awesome, for reasons above.
From my point of view, I can see why their formula is popular. Much of their success comes from other sources though, not directly from their soap, as they are quite active in making positive social change, namely towards the end of discrimination/unnecessary violence (fair wages and working conditions, veganism, etc, and people generally like to support companies that are in it for more than just the profit).
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Dahila
Well-Known Member
Sapo you made a valid points. I know about this company, and even with their fairness to workers and environment they are huge company, which is looking at the profit for them. They seems to care, but do they help the environment. I doubt it. Veganism, maybe it is good but not really for people we eat everything it is our genetic pattern. I went through 2 years of being only vegetarian and still I had a major problems with my health. Veganism does not convince me at all. To spend all the energy of preparing the food instead of making my products 
is just not effective .
Dr. Bronner company have a really extensive marketing program in place , when you spend money on selling products, it does not matter if is good or bad, it sells
is just not effective . Dr. Bronner company have a really extensive marketing program in place , when you spend money on selling products, it does not matter if is good or bad, it sells
Not that kind of forum but oh well:
As for Bronners and their activism, some of it is hype, some of it is real. At times they merely donate towards the cause, at times they influence the problem directly (for example addressing the problem of importing materials while the farmers get boned by starting their own fair trade farm). Whatever their contribution may be, it is undeniably better than that of most other companies. We definetly need more of that and even more dedication!
Back on track: I need to get my hands on some jojoba to see what effect it will have on my "Bronners replica recipe attempt", maybe that's the missing link, as I find my LS to be slightly less... lathery/soft to use.
but oh well:As for Bronners and their activism, some of it is hype, some of it is real. At times they merely donate towards the cause, at times they influence the problem directly (for example addressing the problem of importing materials while the farmers get boned by starting their own fair trade farm). Whatever their contribution may be, it is undeniably better than that of most other companies. We definetly need more of that and even more dedication!
Back on track: I need to get my hands on some jojoba to see what effect it will have on my "Bronners replica recipe attempt", maybe that's the missing link, as I find my LS to be slightly less... lathery/soft to use.
There are so many loop holes in ingredient listing that it makes no sense as to why there is even one. The percentages can be manipulated simply by amount added and if the amount added is the same or close to the most added can be listed as one of the first amounts. Blending of EO/fragrance I believe falls under perfumes and don't have to be listed because they are considered "secrets". Channel No5 has no ingredient list. I only read the list to see what is in the product. That's it. So true, "does not mean squat in reality.":wave::wave:
