Why does my soap look like this?

[jcandleattic]

For what it's worth, I use a 33% lye concentration, 2% SL, I soap between 110F-115F, ...

I use a variety of molds, too- silicone molds, wood molds lined with mylar or lined with decorative fondant mats, and so far (as long as full gel was achieved) I've never experienced any notable variance in my normal unmolding/cutting times.

IrishLass

This is me ditto - Only I use silicone molds 99.9% of the time, and soap maybe a tad cooler (usually RT unless I have to melt the oils a little more, then I'll zap them in the microwave to get them fully liquid)

 

[iwannasoap]

I believe there is a couple of things going on here.
Firstly, you had 15% Shea and nothing wrong with that but Shea tends to react quickly and make it look like it is emulsifying when its really not. You just freaked out. Try stirring a longer before you stick blend or don't stick blend at all.
Secondly, I can tell by the stickiness that more then enough water was used which adversely means less oil to turn into soap and as a result you get this stickiness and you have to wait longer to unmold. Remember, water does not turn into soap it only carries the lye. So the more EXCESS water you add the less soap you have on the bar. The least amount of water to use is 50:50 (say, 4oz. of lye and 4oz. of water). At that point that is when the most oil can be added into your recipe but as a consequence you are more likely to get crumbled edges because the water doesn't carry the lye quite as well. I try to mainly use Lye amt x 1.1 To 1.4 = water amount. And I've also used 50:50 but I have to take greater care and make sure it is blended well.
By playing with the water values you will see that your oil and lye amounts will have to go up to retain the same total weight. In fact, I just recently accidentally done this myself and misread my spreadsheet and I got the same result.

 

[iwannasoap]

No such thing

I gel all my soaps and they still need a good few days before cutting, even with a water discount.

Their is no such thing as a water discount! That would imply that their is a max amount. There is no well established max amount BUT there is an established minimum which 50:50 (4oz lye: 4oz water etc.) so if your discounting water at less then the lye that wouldn't be a good thing. Not enough water to carry the lye.
But I doubt your doing that so when you say your discounting your water, your discounting from what? Full water? And, what amount is that exactly?
Not trying to be rude I'm just being point blank in getting people to think about exactly what there saying.
It took me way too long to figure that out to make good quality soap because of these code words people like to throw around. By the way, I'm sure you make great soap so no offense.

 

[jcandleattic]

Their is no such thing as a water discount! That would imply that their is a max amount. There is no well established max amount BUT there is an established minimum which 50:50 (4oz lye: 4oz water etc.) so if your discounting water at less then the lye that wouldn't be a good thing. Not enough water to carry the lye.
But I doubt your doing that so when you say your discounting your water, your discounting from what? Full water? And, what amount is that exactly?
Not trying to be rude I'm just being point blank in getting people to think about exactly what there saying.
It took me way too long to figure that out to make good quality soap because of these code words people like to throw around. By the way, I'm sure you make great soap so no offense.

There is standard terminology (not code words) within the soaping community that has been well established for many many years.
So by your being "point blank" about it, all you are really doing is making people think you have no idea what you are talking about and need more experience in soapmaking.
You won't make thousands of people within a community change their way of thinking/talking just because you had a hard time understanding that terminology.
JMO

 

[toxikon]

Their is no such thing as a water discount! That would imply that their is a max amount. There is no well established max amount BUT there is an established minimum which 50:50 (4oz lye: 4oz water etc.) so if your discounting water at less then the lye that wouldn't be a good thing. Not enough water to carry the lye.
But I doubt your doing that so when you say your discounting your water, your discounting from what? Full water? And, what amount is that exactly?
Not trying to be rude I'm just being point blank in getting people to think about exactly what there saying.
It took me way too long to figure that out to make good quality soap because of these code words people like to throw around. By the way, I'm sure you make great soap so no offense.

"Water discount" is a very common soapmaking term.

Going in "Lye Concentration" terms (which is what I use when I use soap calculators), the standard/beginner/full-water lye concentration is around 25%. Meaning 25% lye, 75% water. Raising the lye concentration means discounting the water. So a lye concentration between 30% - 50% would be considered a water discount. It's not possible to go higher than a 50/50 solution because the lye wouldn't fully dissolve.

 

[Saranac]

“Full Water” is colloquial slang; it has a meaning within a certain group of people—like soapers. Take it out of context, or ask an outsider, and it might mean something else. It’s like “room temperature.” In my house, that’s about 65F. In yours, it might be 75F. But it does have an agreed upon definition—and even that has changed over the centuries.

Another example—“SOS.” You can yell it from the side of a boat, or you can yell it into a restaurant kitchen. In each place you’ll get a different reaction, but within each of those environments, the receiving party knows what you mean. Sure, an onlooker who is new to boats or to the workings of a restaurant might not understand it, but if they care to stick around, they’ll ask.

 

[DeeAnna]

I agree that "water discount" and "full water" are phrases soapers use. Supposedly we "all know" what they mean, but I also know if you ask a given group of soapers what these terms mean to them, you're going to hear a variety of answers, including words of utter confusion from quite a few newcomers.

But I know phrases like glycerin rivers, water discount and full water aren't going to disappear from soaper lingo any time soon, so there's no point in making blunt corrections of other people when they use these phrases. Instead, I'd suggest setting an example by modeling it -- talk about lye concentration or water:lye ratio when talking about your soap or when asking factual questions about others' soap. If someone asks your point of view, a person can sure explain -- but answering a question is different than an unasked-for correction.

 

[Susie]

If you want to communicate with any group of people, you must learn the lingo. You are simply showing your lack of familiarity with normal soaping terminology, not showing your superiority.

 

[iwannasoap]

There is standard terminology (not code words) within the soaping community that has been well established for many many years.
So by your being "point blank" about it, all you are really doing is making people think you have no idea what you are talking about and need more experience in soapmaking.
You won't make thousands of people within a community change their way of thinking/talking just because you had a hard time understanding that terminology.
JMO

If you are discounting water from a certain higher amount then would you mind telling me what that higher amount is? And if you discounted, then what did you subtract from?
If you can't explain this maybe you too are mystified at these code words that are thrown around and maybe you should question too.

 

[iwannasoap]

"Water discount" is a very common soapmaking term.

Going in "Lye Concentration" terms (which is what I use when I use soap calculators), the standard/beginner/full-water lye concentration is around 25%. Meaning 25% lye, 75% water. Raising the lye concentration means discounting the water. So a lye concentration between 30% - 50% would be considered a water discount. It's not possible to go higher than a 50/50 solution because the lye wouldn't fully dissolve.

Thank you very much for telling me that.
I just really have not understood why would people want to decrease their soap (oil and lye water) by increasing their water to such high levels.
Full water and discounted water always puzzled because that is not set in stone like a 50:50 lye solution.

 

[Millie]

Iwannasoap, have you made your own thread yet? Maybe we should get this all sorted out without confusing our new members. I am not sure why you are hung up on a lack of soap in the mold - we make so much soap, there is plenty to go around. We have soap coming out of our ears. Yes, some soaps will have more water to lose than others. They shrink a little during cure. Many of us take this into account when we design our molds to fit our desired soap dimensions and batch sizes.

 

[iwannasoap]

She was asking what her problem was and I merely told her.
She had more water and less lye and oil then she should have which made it very moist to cut so soon.
More water means less soap and less oil.
I was just trying to get her to understand that because so few "experienced soap makers" know that. They are too used to lye calculators that do not tell them that.

 

[Millie]

I think you underestimate us.
I might say your house is full of dust bunnies, you might say you have less square footage because the dust bunnies are taking up your house. You are bombarding every thread with dust bunnies right now. Let's start a new discussion so the newbies can focus on building the house. Or soap. Whatev.

 

[iwannasoap]

I think you underestimate us.
I might say your house is full of dust bunnies, you might say you have less square footage because the dust bunnies are taking up your house. You are bombarding every thread with dust bunnies right now. Let's start a new discussion so the newbies can focus on building the house. Or soap. Whatev.

I agree that "water discount" and "full water" are phrases soapers use. Supposedly we "all know" what they mean, but I also know if you ask a given group of soapers what these terms mean to them, you're going to hear a variety of answers, including words of utter confusion from quite a few newcomers.

But I know phrases like glycerin rivers, water discount and full water aren't going to disappear from soaper lingo any time soon, so there's no point in making blunt corrections of other people when they use these phrases. Instead, I'd suggest setting an example by modeling it -- talk about lye concentration or water:lye ratio when talking about your soap or when asking factual questions about others' soap. If someone asks your point of view, a person can sure explain -- but answering a question is different than an unasked-for correction.

Thank you for the suggestion. I just typed up a response as to how soap calc's can be deceiving about the ratio's and I was told it was way too long. Looking for it now so I can copy and paste and make a new thread.