Why does my hot process soap look slimy and yucky like this?

[Saltynuts]

Just made some soap last night, 100% flax oil (I know not ideal for soap, just testing I had it sitting around from years ago). In a crock pot. 0% superfat. No fragrances or coloration or anything. 38% water to oil or whatever. I did add a little water when it looked like it was drying out too fast (had crock pot on high). It definitely finished cooking in the sense that all the lye had acted on all the oil - I did the tongue zap test several times until I got no zap (and the first zap shook my brain LOL). And then even after that I let it cook for a good while. It cooked a LONG time. So I definitely do not think it was undercooked.

This is not the first time this has happened - it happens most when I use a crock pot, less when I do the double-boil thing on the stove (glass beaker inside a pot with water in it). But it still seems to happen at least a little every time.

What could be causing it? When it happens, it takes WEEKS to go away (finish drying or whatever). The very exterior is hard, but right under that is very slimy/yucky. Is it just too much water? Or what could I be doing wrong?

Thanks for any help!!!

 

[Saltynuts]

No one? I would have thought this is a well known problem, given how many times it has happened to me. The very outside of the soap is hard, but under that it is gooey, and can stay that way for days, weeks.

 

[AliOop]

No one? I would have thought this is a well known problem, given how many times it has happened to me. The very outside of the soap is hard, but under that it is gooey, and can stay that way for days, weeks.

Rats, that’s a bummer. I’ve never had this happen, but if you provide your full recipe, including liquid, lye, oils, and all additives, that would give us some info to try to troubleshoot.

 

[Ford]

Hi,
Flax seed oil, maybe at a lower %. Combined with other oils. But not 100%
Oils, "Sitting around for years", how old is old??
Crock pot on Hi, batter drying out? Turn it down.
It does *?,:%/%%^ when things don't work out. Good luck.

 

[ScentimentallyYours]

The picture looks like HP soap in the gel phase to me. How long did you let this soap cure? Flax seed oil is VERY high in linolenic acid. Maybe it just doesn’t make good bar soap? I would expect it to go rancid quickly.

 

[Obsidian]

I've never heard of soap with a gooey layer like that. Does it ever happen when you do CP?
For the record, you don't have to cook your batter to death or on high. Use low and once it goes transparent, pour it

 

[LidiaG]

Just made some soap last night, 100% flax oil (I know not ideal for soap, just testing I had it sitting around from years ago). In a crock pot. 0% superfat. No fragrances or coloration or anything. 38% water to oil or whatever. I did add a little water when it looked like it was drying out too fast (had crock pot on high). It definitely finished cooking in the sense that all the lye had acted on all the oil - I did the tongue zap test several times until I got no zap (and the first zap shook my brain LOL). And then even after that I let it cook for a good while. It cooked a LONG time. So I definitely do not think it was undercooked.

This is not the first time this has happened - it happens most when I use a crock pot, less when I do the double-boil thing on the stove (glass beaker inside a pot with water in it). But it still seems to happen at least a little every time.

What could be causing it? When it happens, it takes WEEKS to go away (finish drying or whatever). The very exterior is hard, but right under that is very slimy/yucky. Is it just too much water? Or what could I be doing wrong?

Thanks for any help!!!



View attachment 74733

Hi there. flax seed goes rancid too quickly. I'd think that your oil was too old.
I used up 2y old (hate to waste stuff)flax seed oil in a liquid soap, maybe 15-20% and it turned weird. It was not worth it.
Definitely lower the heat and be more patient. I agree with @Obsidian don't cook too much and as soon as it is translucent pour it.
I personally use the low heat or keep warm on my crock pot. Once it reaches trace, I close the crock pot and leave it. I don't open it, I don't stir it during cooking. Mine takes 30-45 minutes to reach gel, I add a spoon of plain yogurt, EO, or whatever else I want to add after cook then I pour it in a warm mold.
Better luck next time!

 

[Saltynuts]

Thanks everyone. The oil (and the lye) is a couple years old, but the thing is, this happened as well when both were brand new.

100% flax oil, nothing else, was the recipe.

I cooked it a long time on high. I think more than an hour.

Could it be this - when it was done, I simply left it in the crock pot, rather than pouring it out into molds. Might that be causing the issue? Might pouring it out into molds help it to cool down/turn hard a lot faster?

Thanks!

 

[LidiaG]

Thanks everyone. The oil (and the lye) is a couple years old, but the thing is, this happened as well when both were brand new.

100% flax oil, nothing else, was the recipe.

I cooked it a long time on high. I think more than an hour.

Could it be this - when it was done, I simply left it in the crock pot, rather than pouring it out into molds. Might that be causing the issue? Might pouring it out into molds help it to cool down/turn hard a lot faster?

Thanks!

I would try a small batch of a different oil for comparison. Cook it on low heat this time

 

[artemis]

100% flax oil, nothing else, was the recipe.

I cooked it a long time on high. I think more than an hour.

I think you got your answer:

1. It's the oil choice
2. It cooked too long at too high of a temp.

 

[AliOop]

100% flax oil, nothing else, was the recipe.

Well, not really . You also used water and lye. Without knowing how much of each ingredient (oils, water, lye), we can't determine if you used too much water, not enough lye, or both.

I would like to suggest that using a lye percentage would be a better choice than using water-as-percent-of-oils. That allows you to easily adjust the water up or down to see how it affects your outcome. I typically use a 25% lye concentration for hot process.

Hope that helps.

 

[Saltynuts]

Thanks Ali! I just used soap calc, and measured my grams of flax oil, put in 0% superfat, no fragrence, and used the amount of lye and water it spit out (and 38% water to oil ratio or whatever - the default).

Thanks artemis! I am going to try again with this oil, and not cook it as long, and use "low" instead of high on the crock pot. I'll take some pictures of it in the process to better show everyone what is going on. Its weird to me that cooking it too much would cause it to "gel" like that, I would have thought it would have done mostly the opposite - just cause it to dry out. But let's run this one through again! Thanks!

 

[LidiaG]

I did add a little water when it looked like it was drying out too fast (had crock pot on high).

If you need to add water during cooking try a water sprayer. The sides can get dry. Specially for small batches

 

[Saltynuts]

Thank you Lidia, I suspect me adding to much water may have been part of the problem.

Can I ask you (or whoever else might want to chime in) a few follow up questions?

You say pour when the soap is translucent. That sounds like its well after trace. I believe I heard the Brambleberry lady today on a video says she pours at trace. Although maybe that was cold processed soap. But pouring only when soap is translucent is best?

How does the point in time to when the soap goes translucent compare to when the zap test will come back with you getting no zap back at all? I always try and make sure that I get no zap when I taste my soap, then I usually keep cooking a little after that just "to be sure" its done. I don't know if that is wise or how it compares to the point in time when the soap goes translucent.

Should I NOT stick blend the soap after my initial big blend up-front? I have always been continuing to blend throughout the cooking, thinking more blending was a good thing. Might that be part of the problem?

Thanks!!!

 

[LidiaG]

I suspect me adding to much water may have been part of the problem.

I'm glad you were able to figure it out! Good for you! That's how we learn!

You say pour when the soap is translucent.

If you're able to leave the soap undisturbed, you will be able to better see the color change.
Usually we're always stirring so much it's hard to tell

Check out this video:


(I think it's dangerous to use the glass like that, but it works beautifully for the video)

How does the point in time to when the soap goes translucent compare to when the zap test will come back with you getting no zap back at all?

If you calculated and weighted everything properly the soap will be ok. I used to be so obsessed with zap test and cook it. Then ph test strip (that are not accurate). Looking back I would focus more of paying attention to the calculations, recipe formulation and paying attention, not to miss to add the right amount or any oils.

Should I NOT stick blend the soap after my initial big blend up-front? I have always been continuing to blend throughout the cooking, thinking more blending was a good thing. Might that be part of the problem?

Yeah. We all overdo that. If you put the right amount of oils and lye, bring it to trace, it will become soap. For me, I needed to do some CP soaps to realize that.
Then I stopped obsessing too much with cooking too much the soap, and started focusing more on the recipe, and on making it more fluid. It never ends! There's always something to learn

make sure that I get no zap when I taste my soap, then I usually keep cooking a little after that just "to be sure" its done

I also felt like that! That's the reason why HP made(makes) sense for me, because I could see the process of the lye and water becoming soap.
It gave me relief to know that this super strong chemical (the lye) was no longer present in the final product. I felt that my soap was safer this way compared to CP. So I did all the testing and obsessive mixing and kept opening the crock pot lid all the time.

 

[Becky1024]

Thanks everyone. The oil (and the lye) is a couple years old, but the thing is, this happened as well when both were brand new.

100% flax oil, nothing else, was the recipe.

I cooked it a long time on high. I think more than an hour.

Could it be this - when it was done, I simply left it in the crock pot, rather than pouring it out into molds. Might that be causing the issue? Might pouring it out into molds help it to cool down/turn hard a lot faster?

Thanks!

I’ve never made 100% flax seed oil, but I HP quite a bit and never had this problem. My advice is to pour it into molds when it is done. The soap will cool faster and more evenly.

 

[ScentimentallyYours]

You say pour when the soap is translucent. That sounds like its well after trace. I believe I heard the Brambleberry lady today on a video says she pours at trace. Although maybe that was cold processed soap. But pouring only when soap is translucent is best?

This paragraph makes it sound as though you have confused cold process soap making with the hot process. They are totally different!

Cold process requires that you pour soap into a mold between emulsion and thickened trace. The soap doesn’t reach full saponification until after you pour it into the mold.

Hot process soap goes through emulsion to trace to full saponification in the pot before you pour it into the mold. Translucent soap, or full gel, is an indication that the soap has saponified.

Keep that difference in mind as you read and review videos. Hope this helps straighten out your confusion!!!

 

[Saltynuts]

Thanks everyone! I plan to try another batch soon, maybe even this evening. Will get better/more pictures this time. But my narrow questions:

It sounds like I should pour my HP soap into the molds when it is "translucent". I think this is AFTER the "mashed potato" phase, and also AFTER when the zap test comes back with no zap (i.e. saponification is complete). Does that sound right?

Then after I pour it, should i just let the mold sit at room temperature for it to cool? Or better to put it in the refrigerator?

Thanks!!!

 

[LidiaG]

It sounds like I should pour my HP soap into the molds when it is "translucent". I think this is AFTER the "mashed potato" phase, and also AFTER when the zap test comes back with no zap (i.e. saponification is complete). Does that sound right?

Its up to you. The longer you wait and cook. The thicker the consistency it will get. That may be why you needed to add extra water last time.
If you want a smoother finish or do layers, you will need to move quickly at the end. Control the water loss and lower the heat or turn off the slow cooker at the end.

Then after I pour it, should i just let the mold sit at room temperature for it to cool? Or better to put it in the refrigerator?

It's up to you as well. If i have space i put in the fridge or freezer

 

[Zany_in_CO]

100% flax oil (I know not ideal for soap, just testing I had it sitting around from years ago). In a crock pot. 0% superfat. No fragrances or coloration or anything. 38% water to oil or whatever.

Oh for goodness sake! Did you even look at the results when you entered your info in SoapCalc?! With an INS Value of minus 6 the chances of this formula becoming soap are little to none. You need to add other FAs to turn it into soap, no matter how long you cook it, it will take forever to trace and forever to cook, if it ever saponifies, which I highly doubt. The picture you shared is the best you can expect.

https://www.soapmakingforum.com/threads/zanys-flaxseed-shampoo.69272/#post-799143