Whipped Surfactant Soap

[LucyFae]

Scrolling through YouTube I came across this, and I have to admit, I'm intrigued and it looks like something that wont take hours to make. I've been wanting to make bath whip for a while, mainly for sugar scrubs but the prices for pre-made bases are outrageous and I like the idea of making my own. I want to try making it from soap paste, but I'm waiting on KoH.

She's pretty knowledgeable about bath bombs and stuff, although she's not big into soap. I love most of her videos, and figured I'd share for anyone interested, and to see if anyone has tried anything similar? I may give it a try when I get some time, I think I have everything OH, except the Coco betaine.

5 ounces purified water
5 ounces glycerin
3.5 ounces coco betaine
1.5 ounces steric acid
8 ounces sodium lauryl sulfoacetate (or sodium lauryl sulfate, or sodium cocoyl isethionate)
3 grams preservative

She melts it all in the microwave, minus preservative, until the stearic is melted and not gritty, and once it hardens, adds preservative and whips, adds color/FO, etc.

 

[AliOop]

I have made a whip-able foaming base two different ways:

1. Using soap shreds to make the base, per the whipped sugar soap scrubs YT videos by Soap & Clay. We have a good thread here that talks about a variety of experiences and outcomes by several members who tried this recipe.

2. Making the base with surfactants using the Foaming Bath Butter recipe I purchased from the Etsy shop named DIY Bath & Body. It uses the same ingredients you listed, plus a few more. You make the base and can store it to whip up just the amount of scrubs (or other products) that you want. She provides several nice recipes for products you can make with this base.

The second is a far superior recipe: more predictable results from batch to batch, way less drying, and loved by all my users. The recipe you noted above will be somewhat similar to this one, and probably nicer/more predictable than the one made with soap shreds. However, I don’t think Dora's recipe will have as nice of a finish as the #2 recipe I mentioned above, because Dora's recipe doesn’t include any moisturizing oils.

FWIW, in the recipe you referenced, I believe that Dora actually used cocamidopropyl betaine (aka cap-B), not coco betaine. Those are actually two different products, but I see even places like Brambleberry and the Soap & Clay YT channel using those terms interchangeably.

 

[Misschief]

I can second @AliOop's recommendation for the DIY Bath & Body recipe. One of my friends won't use anything else as it's the only product she's ever used that doesn't make her break out in a rash. My daughter swears by it as a shampoo (pH is right for hair, too); she won't use anything else on her coloured hair.

 

[LucyFae]

I have made a whip-able foaming base two different ways:

1. Using soap shreds to make the base, per the whipped sugar soap scrubs YT videos by Soap & Clay. We have a good thread here that talks about a variety of experiences and outcomes by several members who tried this recipe.

2. Making the base with surfactants using the Foaming Bath Butter recipe I purchased from the Etsy shop named DIY Bath & Body. It uses the same ingredients you listed, plus a few more. You make the base and can store it to whip up just the amount of scrubs (or other products) that you want. She provides several nice recipes for products you can make with this base.

The second is a far superior recipe: more predictable results from batch to batch, way less drying, and loved by all my users. The recipe you noted above will be somewhat similar to this one, and probably nicer/more predictable than the one made with soap shreds. However, I don’t think Dora's recipe will have as nice of a finish as the #2 recipe I mentioned above, because Dora's recipe doesn’t include any moisturizing oils.

FWIW, in the recipe you referenced, I believe that Dora actually used cocamidopropyl betaine (aka cap-B), not coco betaine. Those are actually two different products, but I see even places like Brambleberry and the Soap & Clay YT channel using those terms interchangeably.

Its great to hear from someone that's tried it, or something similar, and love hearing your input! I love Creative Bath Lab for bath bombs and bath stuff. Dora and Dean Wilson were my starting point for making bath bombs and steamers, and after some trial and error I'm pretty happy with it.

I copied Dora's recipe from her YouTube description, and re-watched the video. She says it Coco betaine, but I imagine they might be interchangeable to some extent? There's so many products with similar names, properties, and uses, no wonder they get mixed up. I know for the SLSA she says SCI can be substituted, but I already have SLSA, so that'll be my first trial.

The portion i didn't copy at the bottom was to add oils and butters. Probably should've included that too. I was thinking of using a touch of mango butter and either meadowfoam or maybe sweet almond, once I order the Coco betaine.

I can second @AliOop's recommendation for the DIY Bath & Body recipe. One of my friends won't use anything else as it's the only product she's ever used that doesn't make her break out in a rash. My daughter swears by it as a shampoo (pH is right for hair, too); she won't use anything else on her coloured hair.

Ahh, thank you! I bookmarked it on my etsy page, it looks like an awesome store!

 

[AliOop]

I love Creative Bath Lab for bath bombs and bath stuff. Dora and Dean Wilson were my starting point for making bath bombs and steamers, and after some trial and error I'm pretty happy with it.

Me too! Dora's bath bomb recipes work the best for me, but I use Dean's technique of adding the CA last, after all liquids have been mixed in. Works like a charm!

She says it Coco betaine, but I imagine they might be interchangeable to some extent? There's so many products with similar names, properties, and uses, no wonder they get mixed up. I know for the SLSA she says SCI can be substituted, but I already have SLSA, so that'll be my first trial.

She and others may say "coco betaine," but most folks incorrectly use that as an abbreviation for cocamidopropyl betaine (aka Cap-B). These are two different products; you can read more about that here and here. Coco betaine is a lot harder for me to source, so I use the Cap-B. If you can find true coco betaine, it's supposed to be milder bc it has a more neutral pH. If you try it, let me know what you think.

 

[LucyFae]

Me too! Dora's bath bomb recipes work the best for me, but I use Dean's technique of adding the CA last, after all liquids have been mixed in. Works like a charm!



She and others may say "coco betaine," but most folks incorrectly use that as an abbreviation for cocamidopropyl betaine (aka Cap-B). These are two different products; you can read more about that here and here. Coco betaine is a lot harder for me to source, so I use the Cap-B. If you can find true coco betaine, it's supposed to be milder bc it has a more neutral pH. If you try it, let me know what you think.

Omg, very much the same! I think I tweaked a bit of the wet ingredients, but that's it exactly! Theyre both wonderful. I omit oils and P80 in steamers, which I think I read here somewhere.

You had me super curious, so thanks for a new rabbit hole! You're definitely right too, Dora linked the capb on Amazon, not genuine coco betaine.

I read both sources, but just to make it more confusing, I think the first link contradicts the second regarding which is harsher. It was hard to find Humbelebee's written stance other than calling CAP-b a gentle co-surfectant. She did link this science-y blog from a chemist claiming CAP-b is the more gentle of the two.

https://realizebeauty.wordpress.com...camidopropyl-betaine-are-different-chemicals/
I dug a little deeper, and found this as well, where WebMD says coco betaine is the harsher of the two.

https://www.webmd.com/beauty/what-to-know-cocamidopropyl-betaine

 

[AliOop]

Oh, that is so interesting - thank you for sharing! HB&M and WebMD are the likely the more reliable sources, so I'll have to remember that for the next time the subject comes up. Always something new to learn.

 

[LucyFae]

Oh, that is so interesting - thank you for sharing! HB&M and WebMD are the likely the more reliable sources, so I'll have to remember that for the next time the subject comes up. Always something new to learn.

So true! We both learned something new! That's why I enjoy this forum. Thanks @AliOop

I'll post back once I try it out. Hopefully in the next month or so. I have to pick up a preservative too, actually. I was thinking germall or optiphen plus, but I need to brush up on my preservatives.

 

[daisychain]

@AliOop is totally right about the coco betaine almost certainly being cocamidopropyl betaine. I often see people ask 'I can only get CAPB, can I use that instead?' but I guarantee you almost every DIYer is using CAPB, not coco betaine, which is hard to find. A lot of suppliers wrongly shorten CAPB to coco betaine, so many DIY instructors are likely using CAPB from a store that mislabels it.

The link from Realize Beauty is an excellent source on the differences between the two surfactants. BTW, my own foaming bath whip formula is based on a formula that Amanda Foxon-Hill, the cosmetic chemist who runs that blog, shared on Instagram. I can dig that up if anyone is interested.

A few notes on the recipe shared in the video.... First, it's basically exactly the same as the one shared by MakeYourOwn, so I'd personally credit them with this recipe. Second, the suggestion of using SLS as a substitute here is a very bad idea - solid SLS in this amount would be extremely irritating. My skin wants to peel off just thinking about it! I also think SLSa as the only anionic surfactant here will make this a bit too irritating, particularly if you have sensitive skin. SCI is gentler, plus it will make the product firmer (it will set better after whipping). I'd replace at least some of the SLSa with SCI. I also agree again with AliOop that added oils make for a better product, one that is kinder to the skin. And don't use "purified" water - use distilled!

 

[KiwiMoose]

I avoid CAPB because I've read that it can be sensitizing for those with eczema. And SLSa can make me itchy at too high a percentage too. I'm a fan of SCI. But bear in mind that most of these ingredients are very expensive compared to lye-based soap.

 

[LucyFae]

@AliOop is totally right about the coco betaine almost certainly being cocamidopropyl betaine. I often see people ask 'I can only get CAPB, can I use that instead?' but I guarantee you almost every DIYer is using CAPB, not coco betaine, which is hard to find. A lot of suppliers wrongly shorten CAPB to coco betaine, so many DIY instructors are likely using CAPB from a store that mislabels it.

The link from Realize Beauty is an excellent source on the differences between the two surfactants. BTW, my own foaming bath whip formula is based on a formula that Amanda Foxon-Hill, the cosmetic chemist who runs that blog, shared on Instagram. I can dig that up if anyone is interested.

A few notes on the recipe shared in the video.... First, it's basically exactly the same as the one shared by MakeYourOwn, so I'd personally credit them with this recipe. Second, the suggestion of using SLS as a substitute here is a very bad idea - solid SLS in this amount would be extremely irritating. My skin wants to peel off just thinking about it! I also think SLSa as the only anionic surfactant here will make this a bit too irritating, particularly if you have sensitive skin. SCI is gentler, plus it will make the product firmer (it will set better after whipping). I'd replace at least some of the SLSa with SCI. I also agree again with AliOop that added oils make for a better product, one that is kinder to the skin. And don't use "purified" water - use distilled!

I'd love to see the recipe if you can find it. I rarely use Instagram, but the blog has been very helpful, and even clearer up some confusion we had here in this post.

 

[daisychain]

I'd love to see the recipe if you can find it. I rarely use Instagram, but the blog has been very helpful, and even clearer up some confusion we had here in this post.

Sorry for the longest delay ever in replying! I just noticed I had forgotten to get back to this. Here's the formula:

Glycerin                       34%
Water                          20%
Sorbitol                       15%
Sodium Cocoyl Isethionate      10%
Disodium Lauryl Sulfosuccinate 20%
Preservative                    1%

And the notes (no specific directions are given):

"The soap base will set to a pliable paste that can be customised with your choice of extracts. colours and perfume/essential oil.

The base can be made softer by adding glycerin and/or glycerin extracts and made harder by re-heating and adding Stearic Acid or Sodium Stearate (up to 5%)."

I can't find the link but it was on the Instagram account for New Directions Australia.

A few thoughts on the formula, after making it and tweaking it to my liking:

• I seem to find DLSS quite irritating so found it better to use more SCI and les DLSS. More SCI will also help harden it after whipping.
• The formula also works with SLSa instead of DLSS.
• You can also make the base softer by adding more water, if you find adding more glycerine makes it too sticky.
• I added some CAPB for foam boosting and to offset the irritation of the anionics. Unfortunately, I was in 'mad scientist' mode when making this (emphasis more on the mad than the scientist ) and therefore have a mess of notes I've yet to fully decipher, so I can't tell you exactly the changes I made.
• I think the note on adding stearic acid or sodium stearate needs a bit more qualification. They are likely to behave quite differently. I haven't tried sodium stearate in the formula, but based on my syndet bar research, I think it would help harden it (this type of soap is used for this purpose in the Dove bar). I did try stearic acid and I don't think it hardened it, which doesn't surprise me because of how it can act in the presence of high water content + surfactant.

Overall, it's a good base to play with and tweak. And it appears to be based on the composition of the Stephenson Crystal OPC Foaming Bath Butter. You can see the breakdown of that product in this document.