What to do with DOS soaps?

[apples]

Thanks for the article, DeeAnna and penelopejane. Great info. It's hard to test each additives so I'll just experiment on the most suspicious ones.

So far suspecting:

**Lavender, Eucalyptus, Tea Tree, Peppermint EOs (these EOs may be the cause of those with one two dots)
**indigo powder infused oil (this is confirmed cause of severe DOS)
**oils/ butters: olive, sweet almond, cocoa, shea (made small single oil soap, will see)

Geez...that's a lot to test. If I still can't find out the cause of DOS by next week, I'll just have to soap with new supplies when they arrive.

I love pictures so I thought maybe others would appreciate them though they look a bit gross. From top left:
1: 4months old when I saw the spots. few spots looking wet on the surface so I cut into it and noticed that the center is brownish.

2: this is real gross, few weeks old with indigo powder and lavender EO, the whole thing is oily. I didn't cut into it (don't feel like touching it) threw this away. DOS appeared in about 3days.

3&4: few weeks old with indigo powder and lavender EO (remake with Clyde slide, reduced the indigo powder), DOS appear after 2wks. The inside is clear but only 20% of the bar left after cutting off all the surfaces with spots. Will see if exposure to air will cause DOS to appear on the now unaffected areas.

Pic 5 to 8: those are scraps with DOS from 1,3&4. Just to experiment with salting out. I know some said it won't work but I just want to do it since it's new to me. I didn't know when to mold, so after the soap floated and cooled down a little but still soft, I just strained and molded.

 

[DeeAnna]

Molding the soap at the point you did means the soap will have a lot of water in it yet, so expect quite a bit of shrinkage.

I suggest giving the soap a good day to firm up before you unmold. Because the salted-out soap is at room temperature and is not saponifying, it is tempting to unmold as soon as possible, but I've found rushing into unmolding has not been helpful.

If you took the soap layer off brine (salt + water), then the soap will also have some extra salt in it, and that might reduce the lather.

Just curious -- Did you salt-out once or more than once?

Well done!

 

[penelopejane]

Salting-out has nothing to do with humidity. Not sure what you're thinking of ... ???

And no one, least of all me, is suggesting it is the way to get rid of DOS. People are wondering if salting-out might be helpful, but that is quite different than saying it ~is~ a cure.

I guess I was thinking you are stirring the mix over the heat with added water - heat and humidity? Maybe the heat would accelerate the DOS? I shouldn't put "thoughts" in writing!

I got the impression the OP was looking for a DOS cure.
No, your intention, DeeAnna, was well worded and clear.

 

[apples]

DeeAnna, I only salted out once. The lather seems good enough (the soap has 15% coconut oil) even after salting out. Just an update, it is still too soft to unmold and there are few orange spots already appearing on the surface so salting out doesnt help with DOS but it's a fun thing to do.

Penelopejane, so far I've only found ways to prevent before DOS develops so I don't mind if there's a cure for DOS after it has appeared though that's not the intention I started this thread. I'm just wondering what else can be done to those DOS soaps other than throwing them away...it seems such a waste

 

[penelopejane]

Penelopejane, so far I've only found ways to prevent before DOS develops so I don't mind if there's a cure for DOS after it has appeared though that's not the intention I started this thread. I'm just wondering what else can be done to those DOS soaps other than throwing them away...it seems such a waste

Before this thread I didn't know that DOS was only caused by rancid oils. I have been carefully using gloves, good hygiene practices and ROE to prevent DOS and have obviously been fooling myself!
So thank you for the thread.

 

[Susie]

I hate throwing any usable item out, just ask my husband, and that goes double for something I have made like soap. But DOS soap is rancid soap, and there is just no use for it other than throwing it away.

 

[earlene]

DeeAnna, I only salted out once. The lather seems good enough (the soap has 15% coconut oil) even after salting out. Just an update, it is still too soft to unmold and there are few orange spots already appearing on the surface so salting out doesnt help with DOS but it's a fun thing to do.

Penelopejane, so far I've only found ways to prevent before DOS develops so I don't mind if there's a cure for DOS after it has appeared though that's not the intention I started this thread. I'm just wondering what else can be done to those DOS soaps other than throwing them away...it seems such a waste

Right after you did your salting out, I did some, too. I was able to unmold the soaps I had put into small individual molds and they do look pretty, but will need a lot of time to loose that water! I unmolded one larger mold (1-pound) and let it sit for a couple of days in the open air before cutting it into bars. It is still very soft, but does hold its shape.

What surprised me is how light weight they feel. I can feel that they will definitely float (if I give them to anyone who actually takes baths where they would float).

I still have more drying in small granules (hand granulated - so easy) spread out on a towel covered cookie sheet.

Once they are dry, I intend to incorporate them into new soap batter for some kind of design. I don't use powdered laundry soap anymore, but they'd be perfect for that.

Lather and bubble were not inhibited as far as I can tell. There is an interesting waxy feel to the soap granules, just as DeeAnna mentioned in her tutorial.

I agree that tossing out soap you so carefully made feels wasteful. I feel the same way. But if you can't use it up right away after cutting out the DOS bits, then you may as well toss it. It's only going to get worse sitting around. And as it gets worse it starts to smell really horrible.

 

[DeeAnna]

"...DOS was only caused by rancid oils. I have been carefully using gloves, good hygiene practices and ROE to prevent DOS and have obviously been fooling myself! ..."

Oxidation of fats leads to rancidity. Thus reducing the rate of fat oxidation means less chance of the fats becoming rancid (meaning fats that are oxidized, smelly, and discolored).

1. Metallic contamination triggers the oxidation of fats. Gloves or clean hands reduce the chance of contaminating the surface of the soap.

2. ROE slows overall oxidation of fats.

Therefore less contamination on the soap and also the use of an antioxidant --> less chance of overall rancidity or DOS (spots of rancidity).

 

[Steve85569]

Shred it and use it with water for bug spray?

Or just toss it like Susie said.

 

[wbocrafter]

Dos

What is DOS?

 

[DeeAnna]

See post 28. DOS -- spots of rancidity on soap. Dreaded Orange Spots.

 

[Mark]

What is DOS?

As a new person here - is there a list of abbreviations somewhere? A few I've seen in just this thread.
DOS
EO
FO
ROE

and I'm sure there are a LOT more. Is there a sticky thread somewhere that explains these?

 

[kchaystack]

As a new person here - is there a list of abbreviations somewhere? A few I've seen in just this thread.
DOS
EO
FO
ROE

and I'm sure there are a LOT more. Is there a sticky thread somewhere that explains these?

http://www.soapmakingforum.com/showthread.php?t=51841

 

[apples]

Shred it and use it with water for bug spray?

Or just toss it like Susie said.

Thanks! Bug spray is a good idea too.

Earlene, you did a lot last week. I'm so envious. I haven't been able to soap for a while now. Experimenting the DOS issue isn't soapy enough

But it's good to have found out that my avocado oil and lavender eo are the main causes of DOS. Still, there are few batches with only one or two spots. I'm thinking whether it is due to ROE + citric acid in these batches. I have ROE in some oils and CA in all batches. Guess I get to make some more test soaps to determine. Please let this be the last, I want to start soaping for real!

 

[penelopejane]

Thanks! Bug spray is a good idea too.

Earlene, you did a lot last week. I'm so envious. I haven't been able to soap for a while now. Experimenting the DOS issue isn't soapy enough

But it's good to have found out that my avocado oil and lavender eo are the main causes of DOS. Still, there are few batches with only one or two spots. I'm thinking whether it is due to ROE + citric acid in these batches. I have ROE in some oils and CA in all batches. Guess I get to make some more test soaps to determine. Please let this be the last, I want to start soaping for real!

I use AO, ROE and Citric Acid and haven't had DOS.
I don't think you can lay the blame for DOS on a particular oil unless a lot of people in different climates get the same result. Canola oil seems to be like that.

Unless you were saying it is your particular bottle of AO that is old and therefor causing DOS. That could be the case. If an oil is cloudy I would not use it.

 

[Susie]

I use AO, ROE and Citric Acid and haven't had DOS.
I don't think you can lay the blame for DOS on a particular oil unless a lot of people in different climates get the same result. Canola oil seems to be like that.

Unless you were saying it is your particular bottle of AO that is old and therefor causing DOS. That could be the case. If an oil is cloudy I would not use it.

I have never used ROE or Citric Acid, so I can't speak to that.

But, my judgment of an oil that is too old to soap with is the smell. If it is the least bit old, out it goes. I will not use it to soap with or cook with.

 

[apples]

I use AO, ROE and Citric Acid and haven't had DOS.
I don't think you can lay the blame for DOS on a particular oil unless a lot of people in different climates get the same result. Canola oil seems to be like that.

Unless you were saying it is your particular bottle of AO that is old and therefor causing DOS. That could be the case. If an oil is cloudy I would not use it.

oh sorry i didnt make it clearer, i do mean my own bottle of oils. my avocado oil, sweet almond oil and maybe lavender EO too. i made single oil soaps with these oils to find out which oil is causing DOS in my recent batches. i've got DOS in both my avocado oil and sweet almond oil soaps but unfortunately have to test the lavender EO again because i soap it with avocado oil.

thanks for sharing your experience about ROE + CA being fine together. i'm thinking of ditching CA for the coming batch to see the result though

I have never used ROE or Citric Acid, so I can't speak to that.

But, my judgment of an oil that is too old to soap with is the smell. If it is the least bit old, out it goes. I will not use it to soap with or cook with.

i bought them at the same time around April and use very little each time. they're not cloudy and doesn't smell weird (not yet, i guess) still i cant use it to soap (or cook) now. now maybe these oils has some other uses...:think:

 

[penelopejane]

thanks for sharing your experience about ROE + CA being fine together. i'm thinking of ditching CA for the coming batch to see the result though

Don't use CA with goats milk. It makes a soft soap in my experience.

 

[earlene]

i bought them at the same time around April and use very little each time. they're not cloudy and doesn't smell weird (not yet, i guess) still i cant use it to soap (or cook) now. now maybe these oils has some other uses...:think:

Yes, other uses for oil:

Clean the adhesive off of glass or other jars (works better than anything I've tried.)

Clean sticky stuff off your car paintjob (asphalt if it sprays onto your car when you drive by a construction area, for example)

If it still smells good and you want to condition some wooden furniture, put a little bit on a lint-free cloth and rub it into the wood. I've used lemon oil on wood for years and love the smell it brings to the wood.

 

[Susie]

i bought them at the same time around April and use very little each time. they're not cloudy and doesn't smell weird (not yet, i guess) still i cant use it to soap (or cook) now. now maybe these oils has some other uses...:think:

Use them fast, though. If they are causing DOS, they are going rancid.

I store my little used (and most expensive) oils in the freezer from the time I buy them to the time they are used up. This helps prolong their "lifespans" quite a bit.