What to do with DOS soaps?

[apples]

I have like 3lbs of soaps with DOS, some pretty bad, some just a spot or two. Those with just few spots I'll use them myself but don't know what to do with those pretty bad ones. I've been using them to test cutters, planer, beveler, peeler, carving etc just playing around with them. It's such a waste to just throw away but the rancid smell is too strong to use in bath.

Any ideas?

 

[dixiedragon]

Throw them away. IMO it's not even worth it to trim off the bad spots, b/c there will just be more bad spots.

 

[earlene]

I was recently wondering if it's feasible to salt out soap that has a small amount of DOS. I have tossed out DOS-y soap in the past and it sure does feel wasteful when I did that. But after watching DeeAnna's video I thought maybe it would be something to try in the future with soap lightly affected by DOS.

I don't think I would bother if it was heavily affected, but maybe. Anyway it is something I am considering trying in the future if the opportunity arises.

 

[apples]

earlene, mind sharing the video?

 

[dibbles]

Here is the link to part one of DeeAnna's video. There is a part two also on youtube.

[ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DedPOZIOnfI[/ame]

I donate soaps to Clean the World.org. I believe they salt out and rebatch soaps, so if you don't want to do this, you might contact them and ask if they would be willing to take the soaps affected with DOS. I don't know how salting out works for DOS. They accept used soaps from hotels, etc., but might not want any that are affected by rancidity. They are pretty good about responding to an email. Just offering another option.

 

[apples]

Thanks dibbles, I watched both videos.

Wonder if salting helps with DOS though. earlene, you don't want such opportunity to arise, if I happen to test it out I'll share (I often say I'd share but I got lazy sometimes :neutral. Laundry soap sounds like a good idea :think: only if the rancid smell is gone.

dixiedragon, I tried trimming the affected spots previously but they just came back in no time like u said. So now I'm just using those soaps to practice my tools. I may eventually toss them away when I got tired messing with them I don't know...

Now I'm still investigating the cause of DOS, ordered new oils and waiting for them to arrive so I'm kinda itching to do something experiments and some soapy stuff

 

[penelopejane]

I haven't had DOS yet but I would definitely throw them out. If they are like other fungal spores they will spread quickly and infect your good soaps. I'd also thoroughly wash all the implements you have used to cut them with.

 

[earlene]

Thanks dibbles, I watched both videos.

Wonder if salting helps with DOS though. earlene, you don't want such opportunity to arise, if I happen to test it out I'll share (I often say I'd share but I got lazy sometimes :neutral. Laundry soap sounds like a good idea :think: only if the rancid smell is gone.

dixiedragon, I tried trimming the affected spots previously but they just came back in no time like u said. So now I'm just using those soaps to practice my tools. I may eventually toss them away when I got tired messing with them I don't know...

Now I'm still investigating the cause of DOS, ordered new oils and waiting for them to arrive so I'm kinda itching to do something experiments and some soapy stuff

If you haven't ordered any ROE (rosemary oeleoresin extract) it would be a very good purchase for preventing DOS. As soon as I got some I started adding it to each bottle of soaping oil as soon as I open it. On occasion I have also added it to soaps where I use lot of hard oils, as a precaution.

Also I did recently start adding Tetrasodium EDTA to my batches, which is beneficial for preventing DOS as well as soap scum. So it's a double whammy additive. I have only been using it recently, so have not yet experienced the difference.

Dr. Kevin Dunn found that the most effective anti-DOS additives were (together) ROE + EDTA. See this article on his research and findings, if you haven't already found it in your research.

 

[MySoapyHeart]

@Dibbles
Thanks for the link to DeeAnnas videos, I found them so incredebly helpfull! I have always wanted to know about the process, but can`t really say I have seen this process shown very well on youtube before, and with such an easy to understand method too <3

 

[Obsidian]

I throw DOS soap away. I little spot or two is ok and I'll use it but there is no way I'm going to bother with stinky soap.

 

[DeeAnna]

Tried to respond earlier, but my internet connection was on the fritz.

Salting-out will remove water soluble impurities, but it won't do much for fat soluble ones. In the case of a smelly, discolored all-over rancid soap, salting-out would likely remove a lot of the smelly aldehydes and ketones that give rancid fat its typical smell, but I don't know if it would remove ~enough~ of the icky stuff to make the soap tolerable to use. I haven't tried it, however, so that's just an opinion, not fact.

For soap with spots of DOS, I'd just pare out the bad spots and use it as-is. It's my opinion that DOS freckles are caused by specks of contaminants. It's anybody's guess whether salting-out would eliminate those specks. Unless you want to do an experiment with these soaps just for the sake of experimenting, salting-out is a lot of work for a doubtful outcome.

I use salting-out as a way to get rid of some of the color and fragrance in a mixed batch of scraps. The lighter colored the soap is to begin with, the lighter the finished soap. For example, salting-out won't turn a inky black activated charcoal soap into pristine white -- medium to light gray is about the best you can expect.

Fragrance does seem to salt-out pretty well, although black raspberry vanilla FO survives surprisingly well -- salted-out soap with BRV still had a light but distinct grape/berry scent.

 

[apples]

Thanks for the input, DeeAnna, appreciate that. I kinda feel like doing that but after I'm done with the cleaning.

Penelopejane, seriously? I was busy cleaning up after I saw your reply and now just to wrap up some more soaps to clear the curing rack and probably wipe/wash it later. That's enough "soapy stuff" to do for today.

Yeah, Obsidian, I'll use most of them me and DH. The bad ones...I'll think about salting out when I'm in the mood. Meanwhile they stay in a separate box.

Earlene, I read the article before and ordered ROE. Now that I'm suspecting EO could be the culprit, I wonder if ROE will work with EOs (they're not really oils I think). I don't have EDTA though.

 

[Susie]

I haven't had DOS yet but I would definitely throw them out. If they are like other fungal spores they will spread quickly and infect your good soaps. I'd also thoroughly wash all the implements you have used to cut them with.

DOS is not a fungus. It is rancid oils making the soap rancid. No fungus, virus, or bacteria involved.

 

[penelopejane]

DOS is not a fungus. It is rancid oils making the soap rancid. No fungus, virus, or bacteria involved.

Ok thanks Susie. I thought it had many causes. How does it spread?
Also, (admittedly from Wikipedia) rancidification can produce potentially toxic compounds associated with long-term harmful health effects concerning advanced aging, neurological disorders, heart disease, and cancer. Are you saying you wouldn't throw it away?

I know people say it spreads from one soap to the next.
I am very careful about my soap making hygiene and would definitely throw away soap if I found DOS - I have seen some scary photos of DOS.

 

[DeeAnna]

You are right, Apple -- essential oils are not really oils in the same sense as the usual cooking and soaping oils (coconut, tallow, lard, palm, palm kernel, olive, etc). Use ROE or EDTA in your soap, sure. Use ROE to preserve your soaping oils before you use them, that works too. But don't put these additives directly into the EO bottle.

Best way to keep EOs as fresh as possible is to keep them in a dark cool place. Exclude as much air from the container as you can -- pour a small bit of EO from a larger bottle into a smaller one, for example. The fridge is good for storage if there's room. If you don't have room in the fridge, keep your most delicate EOs refrigerated (citrus oils, lavender, tree needle eos such as spruce, pine, fir). Put the others in a dark, room temp place.

Oxidized lavender EO is a known culprit for accelerating rancidity in soap. I've personally experienced this as well as learned about it from reputable sources.

 

[TeresaT]

I have ROE at home, but I haven't used it yet. How much ROE are you supposed to use with your oils? I know the norm is to put it into your freshly opened oil to help prevent oxidation, but if I have a quart of oil, how much ROE do I add? What about a gallon? Thanks.

 

[DeeAnna]

I wrote an article about using ROE in fats and in soap. See http://classicbells.com/soap/ROE.html

ROE dosage is based on weight, not volume, but that's a small matter. Just weigh your container of oil and calculate the amount based on the total weight (fat + container). I know that's not exactly accurate, but it will be plenty close enough if the container is lightweight plastic and the amount of oil in the container is fairly large (at least a quart or liter of fat in a plastic container would be fine).

If the amount of oil is small and/or the container is glass or metal, the fat should be weighed alone -- the weight of the container will be too much in proportion to the weight of the fat.

Hope this helps.

 

[penelopejane]

I have ROE at home, but I haven't used it yet. How much ROE are you supposed to use with your oils? I know the norm is to put it into your freshly opened oil to help prevent oxidation, but if I have a quart of oil, how much ROE do I add? What about a gallon? Thanks.

You may want to read this as some additives negate others:
http://cavemanchemistry.com/DreadedOrangeSpot-Dunn.pdf

I still can't work out why salting out (heat and humidity) would get rid of DOS but I'm no scientist. I just wouldn't want to slather rancid soap on my skin.

 

[DeeAnna]

I still can't work out why salting out (heat and humidity) would get rid of DOS but I'm no scientist....

Salting-out has nothing to do with humidity. Not sure what you're thinking of ... ???

And no one, least of all me, is suggesting it is the way to get rid of DOS. People are wondering if salting-out might be helpful, but that is quite different than saying it ~is~ a cure.

 

[Susie]

I would throw the soap away. I have thrown DOS soap away. I will continue to throw DOS soap away when it occurs. I keep it long enough to determine WHY I got DOS, then out it goes. Life is too short to use bad soap.