What the heck? Blob of zap.

[surf girl]

Sooo....

Soaping seemed to go a lot better when I started out. Now I'm all confounded with unexpected problems. (Y'know, ugly soap, stinky soap, crazy ricing soap...). So tell me, what the heck happened to my latest batch?

It's a recipe I've used twice before with no issues, although I've varied the additives a little each time - nothing I would think would make a huge diff. It's mah carrot soap. I love how the colour turned out in this version, but there are a few... well, for lack of a better word, blobs of white, zappy soapE in the midst of the gorgeousness. (There are only two visible blobs, really, but they are on cut surfaces, so how am I to know that there aren't more evil blobs lurking inside my pretty soap?).

This soap is a combo of vegetable oils, with a 5% superfat, using a 25% lye solution. All the batches including this one have been at 110F. For this dealio, I used half the water quantity to dissolve the lye, then added the second half as carrot juice immediately after mixing the lye solution with the oils. OK, OK, I admit I maybe did a bad thing - I saw what looked suspiciously like a partial gel, and so I threw the slab mold in the microwave to ensure full gel (have done this before with no issues). I have no oven! It's microwave or nada!

So, Kitten Love? Any ideas what causes the odd blob of zappy lye whatsit in an otherwise gorgeous-looking batch???

ETA: scroll down for piccies.

 

[Cattleyabubbles]

I honestly can't give you an answer on this one, I say rebatch it!

 

[surf girl]

Waaaaaah! Nooooooo! They are too pretty. The two lesions (heretofore to be known as Zap Blobs) are about 3/4 inch and 1/4 (or less) in diameter. I'm inclined to just use the soaps myself and dig out any other Zap Blobs that I come across.

I'd still like to know what went wrong.

 

[Lindy]

Bad soap fairies.....

Don't know much more than that...sorry

 

[Jody]

Ha ha ha. Where do you get those emoticons????

 

[surf girl]

Most excellent emoticons indeed! This whole post was worth it just to get that emoticon.

 

[Lindy]

There's about 3 or 4 different places on the net....just google "smileys"

 

[kellistarr]

I think it has something to do with the microwave. Especially, if you are certain this is the only difference. Since you've got no oven, how about extreme insulation? Such as wrapping your molds completely in towels or blankets, when you see that gel is taking place. Or, just doing it to ensure full gel? I'm just curious. Why do you add the carrot juice to the oils?

 

[surf girl]

Hi kellistarr.

I use the carrot juice for the colour. I've used other liquids instead of water for lye dissolution (milk, pureed cucumber, coffee, beer, red pepper juice, wine); this is the second time I've added carrot juice just after mixing a lye-water solution with the oil (subtracting the amount of added juice from the original water calculation, dissolving the lye in the smaller water quantity, and adding the extra liquid at the time of mixing).

I microwaved at about 2-3 hours after pouring into the mold. I've microwaved before (100% coconut, 20% superfat, no juice) with no Zap Blobs, even though I kind of overdid it that time and microwaved to the point of being a bit too hot.

So, what do you think happened in the microwave?

I do insulate with towels. This time, I kind of panicked that the gel didn't seem complete (probably worried too early - for all I know, the gelled centre would have expanded to the whole mold without my interference), and went immediately to the microwave idea. I am such a dork.

 

[surf girl]

For your viewing entertainment, the Evil Zap Blob. Sorry about the photo quality - no porn tonight.

Nice enough (light yellow/orange is carrot juice, dark orange is paprika):
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Evil Zap Blob:
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[Gobbler's Run]

Those soaps are definitely great looking! I have had Zap Blobs in 2 batches of soap before. Both batches were the only ones where I have ever had ice in my lye water....not sure if that was why but I haven't done it since with the result no zap blobs?

 

[Cattleyabubbles]

Ok, don't discount your water so much, use a little more water than carrot juice when making lye/water/carrot juice solution, next time to ensure that the lye is completely dissolved...

 

[jcandleattic]

Ok, don't discount your water so much, use a little more water than carrot juice when making lye/water/carrot juice solution, next time to ensure that the lye is completely dissolved...

This is what I would suggest as well.

 

[surf girl]

Ok, don't discount your water so much, use a little more water than carrot juice when making lye/water/carrot juice solution, next time to ensure that the lye is completely dissolved...

Now, I am a little confused. Some questions:

I though 25% was a pretty dilute lye concentration compared to the 30% and higher that many people seem to use. How low do you suggest going?
[ETA: or did you mean go with more like 3/4 water amount + lye, then the remaining 1/4 water as juice, rather than 50:50?]

If the initial lye and water mix is well-stirred with no cloudiness, reaches its hot temp (140F or 150F or so) before cooling down to 110F, why do you think that there is undissolved lye? I don't see how it could remain out of solution.

I do wonder if you aren't onto something with the initial ratio of water/lye and then added carrot juice. Perhaps the whole mess of oil, water/lye, and carrot juice didn't fully mix... It did trace normally with no visible areas of white discoloration, but maybe... I should search back into previous threads; perhaps I misunderstood how some people mix their alternative fluids. I may just go back to mixing the alternative fluid directly with the lye, as I usually have done.

 

[surf girl]

I have had Zap Blobs in 2 batches of soap before. Both batches were the only ones where I have ever had ice in my lye water....not sure if that was why but I haven't done it since with the result no zap blobs?

Hmm. Anything else about those batches stand out that might have been similar to mine? Alternative fluid to water? Overheating? What was your % water solution? What temp did you soap at? Thanks!

 

[carebear]

Yea, a 25% lye solution is very dilute - I never ever go that low. By splitting the liquid with the carrot juice though you do essentially use a higher concentration at least up front.

In dissolving lye, make sure you use at least as much water (or whatever liquid you dissolve the lye in) as you do lye - so no stronger than a 50% solution for dissolving. Otherwise it may not dissolve fully. Stir until it becomes clear.

Microwaving may have been the issue. It's a recipe for overheating (either all over or in hot-spots). Overheating can leave lye pockets (tho liquid-filled ones is all I've seen). I strongly recommend against microwaving your soap like that, even though you got away with it before. You need a steady, even source of heat like a heating pad or the like.

 

[kellistarr]

I agree with Carebear, that microwaving can cause overheating. It's also possible that you didn't have enough water to fully dissolve the lye (although you stirred and it became clear and appeared to be dissolved).
So, maybe not enough liquid initially, then microwave zapping to heat up and possibly evaporate more water could result in the lye pockets.

The soap is pretty, though. Since it does have those lye pockets do you dispose of entirely, or rebatch, excluding the pieces with the pockets?

What about adding your juice (really cold, or frozen) to the lye. This would enusre enough liquid and you could still have your color?

 

[yafa]

Sooo....

using a 25% lye solution. All the batches including this one have been at 110F. For this dealio, I used half the water quantity to dissolve the lye, then added the second half as carrot juice immediately after mixing the lye solution with the oils.

ETA: scroll down for piccies.

If you used half the water, that means you used (0.5*0.75)=0.375 of the water to dissolve the lye, that means your lye solution is
(0.25/(0.25+0.375))=0.4 which is 40% Lye (not realy 25%) since you did not add the carrot juice to the lye/water.

 

[Cattleyabubbles]

kellistar clarified it better what I was initially trying to explain to you earlier...

 

[surf girl]

Sooo....

using a 25% lye solution. All the batches including this one have been at 110F. For this dealio, I used half the water quantity to dissolve the lye, then added the second half as carrot juice immediately after mixing the lye solution with the oils.

ETA: scroll down for piccies.

If you used half the water, that means you used (0.5*0.75)=0.375 of the water to dissolve the lye, that means your lye solution is
(0.25/(0.25+0.375))=0.4 which is 40% Lye (not realy 25%) since you did not add the carrot juice to the lye/water.

Good point. It was just over half water (something like 6.3 oz water with 5.8 oz carrot juice), so probably just under a 40% solution.