what the heck am I doing wrong?

[bridger]

I'm trying to make some small batches of single oil soaps. the eventual idea is to get an understanding of the qualities of each separately, then start making soaps with mixed oils. in general, here's what I'm doing:

pick an oil. the first was lard, the second was olive. next in line is coconut, then castor.

so far, the lard and olive have failed, in the same way. basically, it's not making soap. I got a few little bits of stuff floating in the lard batch, with the rest remaining unsaponified after about 6 or 8 hours. I threw it out. the olive has been in there for about 4 hours now. it's a little cloudy, but still definitely oil.

I'm using soapcalc to get amounts, a triple beam balance to weigh, a crock pot to process in, and KOH as lye. I'm whipping it by hand with a whisk, alternating with letting it sit. I just pulled the olive out of the crockpot and put it in the blender to see if that would help, but no go.


previously I have made 3 batches of soap which have processed just fine, using the same equipment and methods. they were a shaving soap with stearic acid and coconut oil via KOH, a single oil soap with castor oil via NAOH, and a soap with lard, stearic acid, coconut and castor oil via a mix of lyes.

what the heck am I doing wrong?

 

[Twiggy]

Hmmm stick blender would make a huge different and also olive oil is one the most difficult oils to bring to the trace. It takes some time even with the blender! About the lard I cannot help, as I never used it.

There is a link to the single oil experiment, I think is definitely worth to see:
Part 1
http://curious-soapmaker.com/big-test-100-one-oil-soaps-part-i.html
Part 2
http://curious-soapmaker.com/a-big-test-of-100-one-oil-soaps-after-2-weeks.html
And the end results
http://curious-soapmaker.com/a-big-test-of-100-one-oil-soaps-after-15-months.html

 

[savonierre]

I agree with Twiggy, a stick blender would solve the problem.

 

[bridger]

what do you do with small quantities? seems a stick blender would need a minimum amount to work. and why is it that the regular blender didn't help?

 

[Twiggy]

How small do you want go? The smallest I’ve made so far is 360 grams, less than 1 lb. I’m not completely sure what do you mean by regular blender (sorry I’m not from US) but as far I understood you used a whisk, and mixed it with hand – for olive oil it may be not enough.

Stick blender works pretty well in small cups. See soaping 101 on you tube, she often uses very small dishes to mix her soap with the tool.
[ame]www.youtube.com/watch?v=HFI4WlM85SI[/ame]

 

[hypnotoad]

Kevin Dunn described similar experiments in his "Scientific Soapmaking" book. He recommended putting the mixture in a closable, lye proof container (he used polypropylene plastic) and shaking it. This was for NaOH soap - maybe it work for KOH also?

Good luck! I feel like I should try this myself but I don't have the patience...

 

[bridger]

> I’m not completely sure what do you mean by regular blender (sorry I’m not from US) but as far I understood you used a whisk, and mixed it with hand – for olive oil it may be not enough.


the blender I used looks something like this:

edit:
I used this blender after it had been in the crock pot for several hours and had done very little. after the blender, it still had done very little.

 

[new12soap]

Your problem is that you are using KOH, which is used primarily for liquid soaps. KOH alone with single oils will never give you a solid bar of soap, only a shaving soap type formula with incredibly high stearic content will give you anything that retains it shape. Use NaOH, you will get bar soap.

When using soapcalc are you using SAP values for KOH or for NaOH? Be sure you enter the correct type and measure carefully. I personally do not recommend making anything smaller than a 1 lb batch with home equipment.

 

[sistrum]

The only thing I can think of right now is you're not bringing you soap to trace before cooking. The blender might not have worked because the soap sat to long before being blended? Also how warm are you soaping? You may have to crank up the heat.

I think if you tried with NaOH it would be easier and you should get the feel of the oil as a soap although the texture will not be the same of course. I don't know what size batch you are making but I find much under 8oz tend to behave different. It may have something to do with not holding the heat enough. You can always reuse the soap in a combination batch I'd you are worries about waste. I will watch this post because now I'm curious too. If you think of any more details please keep us posted.

 

[Twiggy]

I think and New12soap and Sistrum are right, there is few issues you should have look in to. But hej, is there a better way of learning than your own experiments?
So I saw someone using such blender, and it worked for that person, but in my opinion it may give the soap mixture too much unnecessary air bubbles, I would invest in a stick blender with stainless steel end, something like that:
http://www.couponcloset.net/amazon-deal-cuisinart-stick-blender-from-30-shipped/
It doesn’t have to be expensive, I got my in a discounter and paid for it around 12 $.
Hmmm, maybe to get it all together you would like to have look on Soaping 101 YouTube channel, I’ve learned all basic from there and some books! She also uses NaOH for solid and KOH for liquid soaps. I know is time consuming, but I also think is good investment to get good base

 

[judymoody]

If you use a tall container, like a pitcher or a SS cup that is used for milkshakes or smoothies, you should be able to get a stick blender in there.

You could also try a latte frother which I use for very small test batches of lotions and creams and to mix my colorants.

However, the essential problem, as mentioned by others, is that NaOH is a much better choice than KOH for your experiment.

 

[bridger]

The only thing I can think of right now is you're not bringing you soap to trace before cooking. The blender might not have worked because the soap sat to long before being blended? Also how warm are you soaping? You may have to crank up the heat.

in the crockpot the whole time. I started the lard on low, as per instructions, and when that didn't seem to be working raised it to high. it still didn't want to trace, and eventually started to show burnt stuff around the edges.

the olive sat in the crockpot for maybe 3 hours on low, working it with the whisk every 20 or 30 minutes before I gave up on that and tried the blender, which also didn't work.

I think if you tried with NaOH it would be easier and you should get the feel of the oil as a soap although the texture will not be the same of course. I don't know what size batch you are making but I find much under 8oz tend to behave different. It may have something to do with not holding the heat enough. You can always reuse the soap in a combination batch I'd you are worries about waste. I will watch this post because now I'm curious too. If you think of any more details please keep us posted.

 

[shunt2011]

As others have stated you need to use Sodium Hydroxide not Potassium Hydroxide. You will never get a solid soap. Good Luck to you!

 

[My Mountain Soaps]

I also agree with New12soap and Sistrum.
The reason you want to use a stick blender is simply that it blends at a more "Micro" level than a standard blender. At least that is my reasoning. Plus, it is SO much easier to clean. How small of a batch are you wanting to make? also, when you say Lard, Olive oil, are you using solely ONE oil per batch? what are your other ingredients? maybe there is an imbalance in there somewhere? I am not sure.
Good idea using a triple beam balance..... i need a new a scale maybe i can steal the triple beam balance that my husband uses for his falconry birds! ha ha. I am sure that i will only get a dirty look and a "Yeah right" in response.

 

[neeners]

this link may help a bit, as someone already did the hard work for you!

http://www.zensoaps.com/singleoil.htm

 

[soap_rat]

If you post your olive oil recipe, I will replicate it and see what happens. I can measure to .1g
Have you been measuring pH at all?