What soapy thing have you done today?

[Jorah]

On the good side of the day, I did another batch of the 72% soap with madder root, and that went very well. Even after increasing the batch size by 50% I still didn't have enough to fill all 9 cells of the mold, so that gives me an excuse to make more soon, right?! And I know this time to leave it in the freaking mold for two days so as not to dent the cubes...

 

[Servant4Christ]

I did it! I made my first full 5lb loaf! I almost panicked after I warmed my oils and then realized there is no way everything else is gonna fit in my soap pitcher! I grabbed my 6qt stainless pot that I've used to make LS in and continued on. I made mechanic soap with 10% honey and it's happily resting without any cover overnight. Please pray it doesn't crack!

 

[Grantxw8]

Nice to see that everyone has been busy and productive. I haven't made any soaps this week but have been printing labels and packaging bars. I don't sell soaps but I'm involved in a refugee resettlement program in Australia and we are raising funds at the moment. These soaps will be little gifts/rewards for anyone making a donation. It's very satisfying to have them ready. Our event is happening next Sunday and I now have to go make about 50 candles.

 

[Blufuz]

Please chuckle in my general direction as I'm using this afternoon's soap disaster as a chance to experience a very light case of hubris-correcting failure. Thankfully, not much money lost, but yeah... humbling failure. Thankfully, I know enough to learn from the experience, not just sit here being embarrassed (as I might have, a decade ago).

What happened?

 

[Jorah]

What happened?

Hubris, to be sure. I thought... I need a hard bar. I'll use all hard oils (not thinking... why are nearly all recipes 50% or less hard oils?). I ended up with 20 ounces of something that looked like clay & gravel mud, with the lye water not able to fully blend with the fats. There's no way that I can trust it.

How did the proverb go?

'Pride goeth before unusable ingredients, and an haughty spirit before soap-on-a-stick.'

I'm involved in a refugee resettlement program in Australia and we are raising funds at the moment. These soaps will be little gifts/rewards for anyone making a donation. It's very satisfying to have them ready.

That's a wonderful cause to support, and you soaps are lovely.

 

[Shelley D]

This week was too busy with 'real work' to do much other than weigh my soap for my cure cards. But I have plans! After running an errand or two this morning, I'm planning to make another batch of the Bastille I made a few weeks ago, the one I put madder root in, and molded in cubes. I think they may be my favorite-looking soaps so far. One of my sisters called last night & we talked soap (of course) and she told me she can't use anything with scent in it, so I'll be skipping the berry scent for this second batch and sending a few of the cubes to her. This past week I finally settled on the inventory/raw materials tracker I want to use, and signed up with them (yes, one of the Soapmaking Forum sponsors) and hope to start doing data input this weekend. I'm also going to wash a bunch of milk crates that have been gathering dust in the corner for years; it occurred to me, finally, that I could use those as drying racks! They're taking up space anyway; they might as well be serving a purpose.

Oh, and this weekend I'm making the next in my honey-soap series. This will be the 8% batch. I'm changing up the base recipe to increase hardness, using nearly all solid fats. I know... changing the base recipe in the middle of the series means I'm not really testing right, but the 6% batch is still really soft, and if this is going to be anything but a stunt soap, I need it to firm up a bit more quickly, for sure.

Next weekend I have 5 days off in a row, and I'm hoping to do a bunch of soapbiz-related work (and, naturally, make some soap). If I have any energy after all that, I will spend some of it organizing my work space.

You are moving right along! Can't wait for the next update!

 

[Jorah]

huh.

I have so much to learn!

My second batch of the madder root-colored cubes looks like it's going to be many shades lighter in color than the rich tones I got in the first batch. Clearly I need to record more details of my technique, because however I mixed the first batch must have been different from this one, but I've no memory of what I did differently.

(update a few hours later) I think I have figured out the difference; in the first batch with the madder root powder I blended it into a portion of the water; on this one I blended it with some of the olive oil. Perhaps the powder doesn't disperse correctly in the oil.

 

[ScentimentallyYours]

'Pride goeth before unusable ingredients, and an haughty spirit before soap-on-a-stick.'

Before you throw your disaster in the trash, look on it as a learning opportunity. If your lye to oil ratios were correct, you can rescue the soap-on-a-stick by enlarging the recipe with high oleic oils in a Fluid Hot Process recipe.

 

[Jorah]

Before you throw your disaster in the trash, look on it as a learning opportunity. If your lye to oil ratios were correct, you can rescue the soap-on-a-stick by enlarging the recipe with high oleic oils in a Fluid Hot Process recipe.

Thanks! I'll look into this... (sounds like an opportunity to buy my first slow cooker)*

-=-

*yes, retail therapy...

 

[AliOop]

Hubris, to be sure. I thought... I need a hard bar. I'll use all hard oils (not thinking... why are nearly all recipes 50% or less hard oils?). I ended up with 20 ounces of something that looked like clay & gravel mud, with the lye water not able to fully blend with the fats. There's no way that I can trust it.

How did the proverb go?

'Pride goeth before unusable ingredients, and an haughty spirit before soap-on-a-stick.'

Hmmm… all hard oils should not give you soap on a stick, at least not without some other contributing factor. As long as hard oils are fully melted, they should emulsify with the lye solution as easily as soft oils.

Did you use an accelerating FO or EO, or lots of TD or AC?

Were you trying to melt the hard oils with the hot lye solution, aka the heat transfer method?

Any of those things could have caused the problems you experienced. If you want to share a bit more, we can hopefully pinpoint the issues, because again, simply having a lot of hard oils in a recipe isn’t likely to have caused the soap to seize, at least, not without some other contributing factor.

 

[Jorah]

Hmmm… all hard oils should not give you soap on a stick, at least not without some other contributing factor. As long as hard oils are fully melted, they should emulsify with the lye solution as easily as soft oils.

Thanks, Ali

I don't think I had the hard oils hot enough; I got them to 122°f. Here's the recipe. I mixed the honey with the oil, as I did on my previous batch, then started adding the lye water. I added if slowly, stirring a bit between dollops. When I had about 1/3 of it mixed in, I paused to check the temperature (it was around 119°f). I suddenly could barely stir it. I tried adding the rest of the lye water, hoping to get it thoroughly mixed in before it hardened, and by then the texture was about like that of clay mixed with cement, that kind of heavy, grainy texture. I tried spooning it into the mold, but it wouldn't really move. I'd guess it took me 20 minutes to transfer it from the pitcher I was mixing in to the mold. This afternoon when I uncovered it it was semi-solid.

Based on what I know about soapmaking so far, I'd guess the combination of hard oils, low oil temps, low water percentage, salt, and honey was just too much.

Component	%​	Grams​
Avocado Oil	20​	150​
Cocoa Butter	10​	75​
Coconut Oil	10​	75​
Mango Butter	10​	75​
Palm Kernel Oil Flakes	20​	150​
Shea Butter	10​	75​
Stearic Acid	20​	150​
	​	​
	​	​
	​	Total oils: (750)​
Honey	​	60​
Faux Seawater	​	189​
Lye	​	111​

Calculator​	Lye Grams​	​	Water Grams​	0.0:0​
SoapCalc​	111.4​	​	189.3​	1.7:1​

 

[AliOop]

@Jorah That is a lot of fast-moving oils and butters. However, I'm going with the stearic acid as the causative factor. It saponifies immediately when the lye water is added.

 

[dmcgee5034]

@Jorah and @AliOop - my first thought was “what does stearic acid do in soap” so I stopped by Soap Queen to read up. The suggested use is a lot lower than your recipe, Jorah, to make an extra firm bar of soap. I appreciate you sharing your recipe and experience - I learned something new!

Here’s what Soap Queen said:
Use Stearic Acid
Stearic acid is a great addition to soap recipes if you’d like to create an extra firm bar of soap. It’s usually used as a thickening agent in lotion. It’s a vegetable derived waxy substance that can be used at a 0.5% of your oils in cold process soap. That sounds like a very small amount, but a little goes a long way when it comes to stearic acid!
Keep in mind if you use stearic acid in your recipe, it will trace faster and needs a hotter soaping temperature (at least 160 ° F) to make sure it stays melted.

 

[Servant4Christ]

It didn't crack! It didn't crack! This is them cut but not cleaned up yet. They are still a bit soft which I'm assuming is because of the honey.

 

[dmcgee5034]

It didn't crack! It didn't crack! This is them cut but not cleaned up yet.

View attachment 73796

@Servant4Christ - yay! A photo! Your soap looks lovely! So happy for you!

 

[ScentimentallyYours]

Thanks, Ali

I don't think I had the hard oils hot enough; I got them to 122°f. Here's the recipe. I mixed the honey with the oil, as I did on my previous batch, then started adding the lye water. I added if slowly, stirring a bit between dollops. When I had about 1/3 of it mixed in, I paused to check the temperature (it was around 119°f). I suddenly could barely stir it. I tried adding the rest of the lye water, hoping to get it thoroughly mixed in before it hardened, and by then the texture was about like that of clay mixed with cement, that kind of heavy, grainy texture. I tried spooning it into the mold, but it wouldn't really move. I'd guess it took me 20 minutes to transfer it from the pitcher I was mixing in to the mold. This afternoon when I uncovered it it was semi-solid.

Based on what I know about soapmaking so far, I'd guess the combination of hard oils, low oil temps, low water percentage, salt, and honey was just too much.

Component	%​	Grams​
Avocado Oil	20​	150​
Cocoa Butter	10​	75​
Coconut Oil	10​	75​
Mango Butter	10​	75​
Palm Kernel Oil Flakes	20​	150​
Shea Butter	10​	75​
Stearic Acid	20​	150​
	​	​
	​	​
	​	Total oils: (750)​
Honey	​	60​
Faux Seawater	​	189​
Lye	​	111​

Calculator​	Lye Grams​	​	Water Grams​	0.0:0​
SoapCalc​	111.4​	​	189.3​	1.7:1​

What was your goal with this experimental batch @Jorah? I plugged your recipe into the soap calculator and came up with a hardness level that’s off the chart. You could color it black and use disk-shaped bars for hockey pucks! (I saved the formula & will pm you if you want to see the graphs.) I concur with @AliOop that high stearic in the stearic acid PLUS from the cocoa butter and the PKO flakes caused your soap on a stick. You have at least 20% of the oils in your recipe to tinker with by replacing the stearic acid. I have no suggestions because I don’t know what you want to achieve.

 

[Jorah]

@Jorah That is a lot of fast-moving oils and butters. However, I'm going with the stearic acid as the causative factor. It saponifies immediately when the lye water is added.

Very useful, thanks for that tip about the stearic acid!

What was your goal with this experimental batch @Jorah? I plugged your recipe into the soap calculator and came up with a hardness level that’s off the chart. You could color it black and use disk-shaped bars for hockey pucks! (I saved the formula & will pm you if you want to see the graphs.) I concur with @AliOop that high stearic in the stearic acid PLUS from the cocoa butter and the PKO flakes caused your soap on a stick. You have at least 20% of the oils in your recipe to tinker with by replacing the stearic acid. I have no suggestions because I don’t know what you want to achieve.

So, I'm messing around with high-sugar recipes, and the ones I've made so far tend toward the mushy side, so I thought I'd try to move everything else toward the hard end of the spectrum, it's that simple...

@Jorah and @AliOop - my first thought was “what does stearic acid do in soap” so I stopped by Soap Queen to read up. The suggested use is a lot lower than your recipe, Jorah, to make an extra firm bar of soap. I appreciate you sharing your recipe and experience - I learned something new!

Here’s what Soap Queen said:
Use Stearic Acid
Stearic acid is a great addition to soap recipes if you’d like to create an extra firm bar of soap. It’s usually used as a thickening agent in lotion. It’s a vegetable derived waxy substance that can be used at a 0.5% of your oils in cold process soap. That sounds like a very small amount, but a little goes a long way when it comes to stearic acid!
Keep in mind if you use stearic acid in your recipe, it will trace faster and needs a hotter soaping temperature (at least 160 ° F) to make sure it stays melted.

See, that's smart, that is.... looking stuff up! I need to do that more. Yeah, 20% is a long way from 0.5%! I really do need to read more, but I also tend to get so involved with preparing to do stuff that I never do the stuff, so sometimes just getting away from the computer and making a batch of soap or cleaning up the workbench is what I need to do... but there has to be some balance, and I went too far in the other direction this time.

It didn't crack! It didn't crack! This is them cut but not cleaned up yet. They are still a bit soft which I'm assuming is because of the honey.

Love it!

 

[Servant4Christ]

See, that's smart, that is.... looking stuff up! I need to do that more. Yeah, 20% is a long way from 0.5%! I really do need to read more, but I also tend to get so involved with preparing to do stuff that I never do the stuff, so sometimes just getting away from the computer and making a batch of soap or cleaning up the workbench is what I need to do... but there has to be some balance, and I went too far in the other direction this time.

We've all been there. My first soap was with around 60% tallow, 20% coconut, and full beer subbed for the water. You can imagine how fast it traced, but I learned so much from just doing it.

 

[Servant4Christ]

I'm kicking myself for not reading my notes. I added my pumice at trace and I can see a few clumps of pumice in some of the bars now that it's cut. I have it in my notes to add and sb in my warm oils before adding the lye to prevent this and yet I didn't read it. I also have only partial gel on a couple of the bars which looks cool but not what I intended so those will be for personal use. I will say the extra honey definitely upped the lather, or at least how quickly it lathers.

 

[Jorah]

Before you throw your disaster in the trash, look on it as a learning opportunity. If your lye to oil ratios were correct, you can rescue the soap-on-a-stick by enlarging the recipe with high oleic oils in a Fluid Hot Process recipe.

Hey, @ScentimentallyYours it's still far too early to tell if these will be usable bars, but the hot process rebatching seems to have been at least potentially successful! The color change from light brown (the color of my first two batches of honey soap) to these various shades of coffee* is really surprising, but I don't dislike it, and (if it's usable) far better than a couple pounds of soap in the rubbish. Both the individual molds and the loaf have interesting qualities.




*I'm badly colorblind, so not sure what color they really are, but they look like black coffee (on the leaf molds) and a combo of coffee and toffee on the loaf slices)