what preservative do you use for sugar and salt scrubs?

[birdcharm]

Just jumping in for a moment ... didn't have a chance to read info on links, BUT ... two things that bacteria does not thrive in are salt (that's why dried meats are preserved with salt) and sugar. So, my question is, do you need a preservative in salt or sugar scrubs? If so, can't you add citric acid?

~ Kathy

 

[Hazel]

The problem with scrubs is you don't know how the person will treat the scrub after receiving it. Is it going to be kept in a warm, humid environment? Will they scoop the product out with wet hands? Bacteria will start to form once water is introduced into the scrub.

Citric acid really isn't a preservative. It's a pH regulator. It can help deter some bacteria by increasing the acidity of a product. But you really need a preservative that's effective against bacteria, mold and fungus.

 

[paillo]

The problem with scrubs is you don't know how the person will treat the scrub after receiving it. Is it going to be kept in a warm, humid environment? Will they scoop the product out with wet hands? Bacteria will start to form once water is introduced into the scrub.

Citric acid really isn't a preservative. It's a pH regulator. It can help deter some bacteria by increasing the acidity of a product. But you really need a preservative that's effective against bacteria, mold and fungus.

that's exactly why i'm asking. scooping product with wet hands will certainly introduce nasties. i'm totally stymied about paraben-free preservatives for anhydrous products... there has to be something out there!!!!!

 

[Hazel]

Lindy made a good recommendation. As far as I know, Germall Plus Powder is probably going to be the only paraben free preservative for scrubs.

Although, please post and let us know if you find something else.

 

[paillo]

Lindy made a good recommendation. As far as I know, Germall Plus Powder is probably going to be the only paraben free preservative for scrubs.

Although, please post and let us know if you find something else.

going to try the germall plus powder, will post results when i order and make some more. thanks lindy and all!

 

[birdcharm]

Hi Everyone,

I'm new to this forum, but have been trying to study the preservative issues for a while now, as I have been creating and experimenting with skin care products that are natural, without the use of parabens or chemicals.

I know that this is not necessarily the aim here with this particular thread ... I mean, not using synthetics. Although there has been mention of not wanting to use parabens.

From what I have read, Diazolidinyl Urea is a main ingredient in the Germall Powder, and I'm personally not too sure about this chemical versus some of the ones used with paraben products. Some chemicals are no worse or no better than paraben products ... is that true? In other words, why refrain from paraben products and select other chemical products? I'm not saying this to be sarcastic, I'm truly asking the question, because I have found this preservative issue to be highly complicated.

I understand that the preservative is not being added because of what is in the product, but because of what the consumer might add to it upon using it. Of course, we can include directions for use that mention to not scoop out product with fingers, but to use a spoon, etc. (or supply a little plastic spoon with the product) ... but, people don't always read, so that kind of leaves me thinking that most things I make should be in tubes and not jars in order to go the natural route ... maybe that way the product would stay sanitary and the use of chemicals would not be needed so much.

I guess I've taken the safe cosmetics message pretty seriously, so please excuse me for that, but I'm pretty sold on trying to not use many of these synthetics for use on the skin.

I don't mean to make waves here ... just bouncing around some thoughts, so, please, don't misunderstand me, I'm simply trying to sort things out a bit.

~ Kathy

 

[soapbuddy]

If there is a way for the customer to introduce water into the product, believe me, they will. This includes malibu tubes. You will find that most customers simply don't read the directions. I would love to be able to use a natural preservative. Until that time comes, I will use a presevative that's effective. There's too many sue happy people out there.

Some people prefer paraben free products because that's what they read or saw on the net. They don't know the real reason why, except for scaremongering by the so called "experts".

 

[birdcharm]

Hi Soapbuddy & all,

I understand your point about what the consumer may do once they have the product in their hands! Kind of hard to train them too! I was thinking of tubes with narrow openings, but, yes, water can get into bath products quite easily, even when there are warnings on the package.

And, I know that many people aren't really concerned about what is in a product, or what they put in or on their bodies ... however, there does seem to be a "movement" or "awakening" of sorts by a segment of the population that has turned their heads to take notice of what they are putting on their skin, finally understanding that what goes on the skin, goes into the body.

So, with this in mind, for me personally, I am simply trying to sort it all out. Up to this point, I have not ventured into cream or lotion making, and now that I have gotten some experience with it, it's critical for me to take a closer look at preservatives. And, I see that others may be in the same sort of "quandary" ... what to do? What is best to use? What will work? What is safe, etc., etc., etc.

And, each and every individual product has to be closely investigated, as is mentioned time and time again by people in the know, as well as suppliers. As far as a body scrub goes, it is something that is used all over the body. I have read that Iodopropynyl Butylcarbamate (other a/k/a/ for the preservative in question) should not be used on large areas of the body, such as body lotion. I'm not sure if a scrub fits into that category, however.

"Although IPBC has claimed to be safe when used at concentrations less than 0.1%, the introduction of IPBC into cosmetics has led to several reports labeling IPBC as a potential new contact allergen."
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12022126

I know I'm a "newbie" here and you may feel that I'm making too big a deal out of this, but although I am new here, I'm not new at all of this, just some things ... learning about the preservatives is one of those things. But, it is often the novice who will ask the more serious or detailed questions or seemingly make bigger issues out of things that are minor ... OR, perhaps ask questions about big issues that are simply considered minor ... either way ... I am here to read and learn, and if you can all be patient with me, ask too many questions sometimes!

Anyway, from what I have read, it's our job to poke holes in the preservatives issue until we find something that works well and is as safe as we can manage ... so, I'm just poking around a bit and wondering if there is another good preservative that may be more on the natural side for scrubs ...?

~ Kathy

 

[Lindy]

Birdcharm - your concerns aren't new, nor are your comments. If you look deep enough at any preservative you are going to find something bad about it because there are people who will read the MSDS and see the precautions for using it in it pure state and freak out, then they run around the internet passing along information that is faulty because the customer is not being exposed to those levels. Take a look at the MSDS for something Spearmint Essential Oils and then you'll run screaming.

Everything needs to be looked at in context. We are never going to use a product that is 100% preservative. Germall Plus Powder is used at levels of 0.05% - 0.2%. Now do the math, how much of Diazolidinyl Urea do you really think your customers, or you, are going to be exposed to in the completed product.

Because I sell into Health Food Stores etc I have had to look very closely at what my preservation systems are as well as how reliable they are. I have had a couple of batches fail where I used Optiphen. They went moldy even at my preservative being used at it's maximum recommended amount. It could have been a bad batch of the preservative but after buying a second portion from an unrelated supplier I have abandoned Optiphen as not being 100% reliable. Germall Plus Liquid has Propylene Glycol which is a big no-no with the Health Food industry and I have yet to find a "natural" preservation system that works.

So I think my biggest point in this ramble is that you need to do your own research and then put it into perspective. As I said the MSDS for essential oils are pretty frightening too if taken out of context.

ETA - I forgot to mention that the people who are screaming the loudest about an ingredient usually have something to gain by pushing it off the market - whether it is a body product or an ingredient they want you to use... sometimes you have to search pretty hard to find out the original "source" of the outcry but once you do it is usually pretty suspicious and certainly not an unprejudiced source.
Cheers

 

[Hazel]

So I think my biggest point in this ramble is that you need to do your own research and then put it into perspective. As I said the MSDS for essential oils are pretty frightening too if taken out of context.

ETA - I forgot to mention that the people who are screaming the loudest about an ingredient usually have something to gain by pushing it off the market - whether it is a body product or an ingredient they want you to use... sometimes you have to search pretty hard to find out the original "source" of the outcry but once you do it is usually pretty suspicious and certainly not an unprejudiced source.
Cheers

Lindy -

Very well put. Thanks for posting. Didn't someone on this forum track down info on the paraben scare from a few years ago?

Maybe it was another forum but I remember clicking on links that led to the original study that mentioned breast tissue and parabens. I didn't read the whole report (33 pages - yikes!) but I did read the relevant paragraphs. The scary info that had been posted online about parabens, etc had used sentences from the report out of context and the wording had been altered to make it appear parabens caused cancerous tumors in breast tissue. Then this person posted a link (or links - I don't remember) which led to the the sites that first mentioned that parabens were hazardous.

And wouldn't you know - one of them was a company that manufactured "natural" body care products. What a surprise. :shock:

I wish now I had kept the info to these sources so I could post them so other people could look at them. But I didn't. I just read the info and went and ordered Liquapar.

 

[Lindy]

Thanks Hazel - I remember that post too. Fear mongering is extremely annoying. Parabens are present and created naturally. The did find parabens in breast tissue, but they didn't research to see where it came from, but neither did they link it to cosmetics in the original report, others chose to do that. I wish people would remember that we need to create a balance between nature and science. Not everything in nature is good for you (foxglove produces digitalis which can save your life when handled knowledgeably or distracted by medical science - eat the plant and you are dead, not sick but dead).

People who start this nonsense do us more harm that good - okay stepping away from the soap box with great difficulty, well at least attempting to...

 

[Hazel]

You don't have to . I appreciate it when you join in a conversation because I learn a lot from you.

 

[Lindy]

Thank you

 

[Kenjifujima]

I'm new here in this forum and everything i read is really nice.
I learned a lot here.
Just want to say Thanks.

spammy link deleted - the mod team

 

[madpiano]

Well, I am in Europe and therefore I have to look into Paraben free preservatives. France is banning Parabens from cosmetics already, I would imagine Germany will follow that quite sharpish, as they are quite Eco anyway (and easily scared).

I have deliberately started my company Paraben free as I saw something like that coming (although didn't expect the French to be first). I use Microkill for my products, not sure what it is called in the US/CAN

INCI: Phenoxyethanol (and) Caprylyl Glycol (and) Chlorphenesin

Broad spectrum Parabens-free and Formaldehyde-free preservation system. Active against Gram postive and Gram negative bacteria, yeasts and moulds.

FORM: Clear liquid. Low odour

Usage Rates: 0.75-1.5%

Microkill COS is effective in difficult to preserve formulations, such as water/silicon emulsions. It is compatible in a wide range of skin, hair and suncare products. It has a well-documented safety profile. Stable in a wide pH range (3-8). Water insoluble. Can be integrated into the pre- or post-emulsion stage, at or below 60C.
Globally approved - EU, US, Japan

 

[Hazel]

madpiano -

Thanks for telling us about this preservative. I googled trying to find info on it but I didn't find much. Here's a few links that people might find interesting.

http://swiftcraftymonkey.blogspot.com/2 ... l-cos.html

http://www.in-cosmetics.com/ExhibitorLi ... OSv1.4.pdf

http://www.happi.com/articles/2009/05/s ... he-fittest

 

[birdcharm]

Interesting quote on the first link there ...
"I find that phenoxyethanol has a rosy scent and it makes my eyes red. Lots of unscented products use it, probably because it smells good. Too bad, since people with perfume allergies are probably likely to be allergic to it, so we can't buy even "unscented" products if they have that preservative."

Some people have absolutely no tolerance to scents whatsoever, so I think this is good to know.

I'll have to do some reading on the other links later. Seems as though madpiano already found that first link ... :wink: ... anyway, thanks for posting these Hazel.

I don't know, for me, all information is good information ... we need to know what we're doing. I certainly hope that it wasn't being implied that I came here to scare people, as that's furthest from the truth. I simply came here to learn and to share what I may know for those who are interested.

~ Kathy

P.S. I'm sure most here have viewed this, but just in case you've missed it, I think you may find it interesting ... see "Story of Cosmetics" at http://www.safecosmetics.org

 

[Hazel]

. Seems as though madpiano already found that first link ... :wink: ...

I noticed this and I was amused.

. I certainly hope that it wasn't being implied that I came here to scare people,

Don't worry about it. We find all the forum people from Texas scary.

 

[madpiano]

chuckle - yes, I wasn't just going to use any old Preservative blindly and researched this one. I thought Swift was the best place to start.

Can't say that I can smell anything rose-like or otherwise from it. It is odourless. No colour. Maybe Phenoxyethanol on it's own smells of roses? If so, then this preservative combo contains very little.
If that poster was referring to the new preservatives made from EOs and labelled as Parfum on the ingredient list, then Phenoxyethanol has nothing to do with that.

Also, has anyone found anything else about this on the net, or just the one comment of one Anonymous poster?

Each of the ingredients are highly irritating by themselves and neat on the skin. And there will be someone out there who may be allergic to any one of them.

 

[birdcharm]

Well, I was able to find out that Phenoxyethanol is also referred to as "Rose Ether" ... although I couldn't quite find out why it's called that. There seems to be some conflicting material that I have read so far regarding this. There seems to have been a report of a U.S. company that, according to article I read, used this in a product called "Mommy's Bliss" and our Food & Drug Admin. issued warnings about it ... but, that could simply be because of how the product was to be used, and not necessarily anything bad about the preservative itself.

I will offer this though ... if you are creating and marketing an "organic" product, you may wish to choose another, as your customers may have read some of the info. I did ... for instance, this is what one site stated:
"So when you see phenoxyethanol listed on a bottle of so-called “organic” baby lotion, put it back on the shelf and look for a truly green,
safe and healthy product."


Yes Hazel, you've got to be careful ... this state turns out anything from Buddy Holly to Janis Joplin and anything in-between!
:wink: However, I'm a native Californian, so you've really got to be careful of me! :roll:

~ Kathy