What oil is best for lather?

[peace-love-and-suds]

I have been experimenting batch after batch to try to perfect a particular recipe. I'm having a hard time getting the lather where I want it. I tried making a high castor percentage of 18 (which was not sticky) and 25% which WAS sticky. I also found castor doesn't do anything for lather (even though the soap calc went through the roof on the lather...it lied). Here are my oils:

Palm
Coconut
olive
hemp
palm kernel
castor
Shea

I'm trying to keep the palm kernel and coconut low because I want 15 or less on cleansing. I want high 60-65% conditioning with really good lather. Which one of these would kick the lather up (besides the coconut) oil the most? I'm walking a razor thin line trying to get ultra high conditioning without sacrificing creamy suds with a mildly hard bar.

I really wish there was a detailed book on oil properties. And by properties I mean personalities in soap making, etc. Everything is so temperamental. Changing the percentage of one ingredient can make a 25% castor recipe become non-sticky or sticky all of a sudden. I can't isolate it and it's maddening and expensive.

One last thing... what is up with those soap calc numbers? They say they are high in something but then it can totally not work out that way in reality.

 

[Ruthie]

"Lots of lather" may be a subjective thing. But my "go to" recipe is 15% coconut and 5% castor and IMO lathers nicely once it is fully cured. It also feels really good, and that is what I prefer to go by, using the numbers on the calculator only as a guide. Have you considered adding some sugar to up your bubbles? Have you tried goats milk or beer? Maybe you need an additive besides your oils.

 

[melstan775]

I was also recently informed by a very experienced member of this forum that you don't need both coconut and palm kernel oil since they essentially do the same thing. If you cut back on your cleansing a bit you will get more conditioning and perhaps more creamy or bubbly lather. I was playing with soapcalc today and dropped my castor oil to three percent and my lather went up.

 

[peace-love-and-suds]

sorry I should have said I want everything organic, unrefined and natural (no sugar, salt, etc). I have not however waited until full cure before testing because it takes my particular recipe about 2 months to cure (sigh).

 

[peace-love-and-suds]

In my next batch I am going to try bumping the hemp to 30% from 15. Though soap calc does not show any improvement in the lather/suds I have produced really good suds from hemp in the past. What is up with soap calc?

 

[PMM]

What about Muscovado sugar. I think that is unrefined. You can probably Google it and found out about how it's made. I know they carry it here, one place I get my coconut powder.

http://www.wildernessfamilynaturals.com/category/natural-sweeteners-muscovado-sugar.php#sugarmade

I also think Sesame Oil lathers pretty good. Might want to give that a try.

 

[melstan775]

How about raw honey? Natural source of sugar.

 

[Ruthie]

What Melstan said. yes. Just what I was about to say!!

 

[Jessrof]

I can't help with the recipe because I am such a newb but could it be your water? I know I can tell a difference in the lather of the same soap when I use it at home vs when I use it at say the beach (with softer water I think). Maybe try lathering up with some distilled to see if that is an issue.

 

[SoapPapaw]

How much sugar or honey?

 

[green soap]

Honey, beer, goat milk are all natural and add to the lather.

I would just increase my CO and SF% both.

Soapcalc lyes trough its teeth....I mean lies.....LOL......it is just that soapcalc does not account for the increased conditioning with SF above their set 5%.

I love my 100% coconut oil soaps with 20% SF. They lather in hard water where my bastilles don't. Nobody has found them to be too cleansing, or drying.

 

[lsg]

I use 1 tsp. of white sugar ppo. I dissolve the sugar in distilled water before adding the lye. Some honey soaps have a tendency to overheat in the mold.

 

[sistrum]

White sugar is no more refined and messed with than the palm oil you're using unless its orange palm which is its natural color. Just FYI.

 

[TeriDk]

I use 1 tsp. of white sugar ppo. I dissolve the sugar in distilled water before adding the lye. Some honey soaps have a tendency to overheat in the mold.

That is what I use but add the dissolved sugar to my oils before adding lye water. I have plenty of bubbles in my soaps but I just made a palm kernel oil soap (no CO) so will see how it works...if only I could get the dang soap out of the mold:crazy:!

 

[kerianne]

My go-to recipe that is lathers really well has coconut,olive, tallow, 7% cocoa butter and 8% castor. I also use beef & coffee, or goats milk for my liquid. It has given me the most bubbles out of all my batches. Good luck!

 

[wildbelles]

Ditto the hard water issue. Our is the worst hard water ever. I really upped my coconut, but also upped my SF and get great lather/bubbles and a mild soap in our hard water. Tis true that soapcalc does not take into consideration the SF. Your bubbling oil choices are CO, PKO or babassu (expensive)...all of the other don't really bubble save an all olive oil castille which gives you what some call a "slime" or "snot" type of creamy lather.

Aged soap will lather much better than just made. I would watch the high amounts of hemp...you are just begging for DOS because of the short shelf life. The only thing I really pay attention to in soapcalc are the oleic, and the linoleic/linolenic...keep the last two under 15 to avoid DOS. Why don't you just experiment with the 'holy trinity" oils and play with the coconut (or PKO) and SF levels? You will have to be patient though to test for lather and mildness.

 

[wildbelles]

Forgot to add that sugars in any form will boost lather (as they others said)...whether they be from milks, or sugars/honey...they will also accel and heat up so adjust your method as necessary.

 

[PMM]

SoapPaPaw, I usually use about 1 Tblsp of honey ppo. I mix the honey in a bit of warm water so it's easier to incorporate. I have better luck adding the honey at trace rather than to the lye solution. But like others have said, it heats up.

J