What is the difference between liquid soap and shampoo

[Zany_in_CO]

Liquid soap and shampoo is the same to me. I shampoo my hair with Dr. Bronner's glycerin peppermint liquid soap.

:bunny: Thank you, Ann. That's my point exactly.

ceemoor if you know a bit about hair you would know that hair and high ph (lye soaps) do not agree

With all due respect, I do know a bit about hair, Dahlia. I’ve done the research. While you’re quite correct, it’s true that pH for hair is lower than for skin, there’s simply no way to get there, as I understand it, unless I go the syndet route. Ugh. I got into soapmaking to get away from syndets!

Over many years of T & E (Trial & Error) I’ve had the good fortune to develop LS with pH 8-8.5, made with oils/fats + water + KOH + citric acid solution that is gentle enough for every day use. YAY! Good on me! LOL

Agreeing here and to say that there is no difference between a liquid soap and a shampoo is complete and utter baloney (spelling intentional). Shampoos are designed to be lower on the pH scale than lye based soaps and many of them are a great deal gentler than such soaps are.

Baloney, eh? LOL Mea culpa, Arimara. I was speaking within the context of the question. To me, and this is just me, I make LS AND I use it to shampoo my hair, among other things -- like putting it in a foamer at the sink to wash dishes; adding an ounce or so to 32 oz spray bottle to clean the range top and other kitchen appliances; for laundry, and so on. The only thing that I don’t use it for is my wood floors, stair rail and cabinets. For that I use my Murphys Oil Soap dupe, handmade from scratch with no syndets, just like the original.

...many of us have tried and it failed terribly causing myself to cut my hair super short due to the damage. Many others here have suffered the same fate. It's not pretty

Oh my goodness! I’m SO sorry to hear that, Shunt. At least, now I understand why there’s an anti-homemade-shampoo-soap bias here. Thanks!

NOTE: All natural shampoo -- both hard bars and LS -- takes a bit of getting used to. It took about a year or so before my hair adapted to my CP shampoo bars -- I even went back to store-bought shampoo 2-3 times during the journey. The transition to LS was waaaay easier! During that period, to protect my hair from the negative effects of homemade shampoo, I also developed a conditioner, clarifying pre-shampoo, and rinses to remove soap scum and to restore the pH balance to the acid mantle of the scalp. Now my hair is at the point where I don’t even bother with the extras most of the time, altho they were a boon along the journey.

 

[Arimara]

Baloney, eh? LOL Mea culpa, Arimara. I was speaking within the context of the question. To me, and this is just me, I make LS AND I use it to shampoo my hair, among other things -- like putting it in a foamer at the sink to wash dishes; adding an ounce or so to 32 oz spray bottle to clean the range top and other kitchen appliances; for laundry, and so on. The only thing that I don’t use it for is my wood floors, stair rail and cabinets. For that I use my Murphys Oil Soap dupe, handmade from scratch with no syndets, just like the original.

I stand by what I said- shampoo's and soaps are NOT the same thing, ESPECIALLY since you use a lye based soap as a shampoo. I don't think there are any shampoos out there that are not syndets by nature but having used both natural shampoos and syndets, I prefer the syndets. I'm not going to rely on some process of patience to get my hair acclimated to a product. If my body initially rejects a product, which has happened with both natural and syndet shampoos, I will count my losses. I'm far too sensitive to some ingredients to risk my health and many of the natural hair shampoos and conditioners have actually done me more harm than the syndets I use for my hair now. Since soaps like Dr. Bronner's are especially drying, I don't even think of them these days.

 

[IrishLass]

strips are accurate

Woops- I think you meant to type inaccurate.

Candice- if you are using paper strips, just know that they are notoriously inaccurate when it comes to testing lye-based soap because of its surfactant nature- it messes with the indicator chemicals on the strips and can throw the results off by as much as 2 to 3 points. Here is a very good article to read on the subject: http://www.millersoap.com/phtome.html

If your strips ever tell you that your soap has a pH of 7- you can be certain that the soap is messing with the indicator chemicals on them and you are getting faulty readings. The scientific definition of lye-based soap is an "alkaline salt of a fatty acid", which means that the pH will always bottom out on the alkaline side of the pH scale. On average, the pH of properly made, well cured soap ranges anywhere from about 9 to 11, although it can be a little higher or lower than that....but it will never be 7 without separating and ceasing to be soap.

If by testing the pH your goal is to determine the safety of your soap, it really won't tell you all that much in that regard. Soap can have as high of a pH of 12.36 and still be safe and non-irritating, and on the flip-side have a pH of 10.36 and be very irritating according to dermatological irritability index tests done on lye-based soap. The most that pH will tell you about your lye-based soap is that it is alkaline- which is already a known factor. The best way to test the safety of your soap is by applying the tongue/zap test. It's simple, takes just two seconds, and you don't have to buy any equipment to do it.


IrishLass

 

[Zany_in_CO]

I stand by what I said- shampoo's and soaps are NOT the same thing,

I agree, Arimara. I'm sorry if I wasn't clear.

 

[candicec003]

OK so I just did the pH test using the suggested method of 1g soap dissolved in 99g of distilled water and the reading was a 8-9ph level.

 

[IrishLass]

That's much more realistic.


IrishLass

 

[candicec003]

I think im starting to wrap my head around the liquid soap making methods, but, can you superfat a liquid soap after youve made the paste and diluted it by adding more oils? or can you dilute the paste with only water? could you use maybe aloe vera juice or something? or is it strictly water for dilution?

 

[Arimara]

I think im starting to wrap my head around the liquid soap making methods, but, can you superfat a liquid soap after youve made the paste and diluted it by adding more oils? You can increase your superfat for your paste but it will involve other ingredients to prevent your oils from floating on the top of your soap.or can you dilute the paste with only water? could you use maybe aloe vera juice or something? or is it strictly water for dilution?unless you want to use a preservative to keep the nasties from forming, it's strongly advised you stick to water for dilution. Anything aside from water will mean food for the microorganisms that can grow in soap.

I replied in blue. Hope it helps.

 

[IrishLass]

I think im starting to wrap my head around the liquid soap making methods, but, can you superfat a liquid soap after youve made the paste and diluted it by adding more oils?

Yes, you can, but you will need to add a solubizer/emulsifier along with it to keep it from separating out. When I superfat my creamy cocoa/shea liquid soap with meadowfoam seed oil after dilution, I use PS80 for this task.

or can you dilute the paste with only water? could you use maybe aloe vera juice or something? or is it strictly water for dilution?

I agree 100% with what Arimara said in response, I stick to only using distilled water when diluting mine.


IrishLass

 

[Zany_in_CO]

Hiya Candice, I'm sorry I've arrived so late to this party! I've taken the liberty of moving your recipe to a new thread entitled "CP BAR TO CP LS". I also posted two new topics in the LS Forum covering (1) Cold Process LS for Beginners (which we will be using) and (2) What to Expect from Various Oils used in LS (to show where I'm coming from). In addition to Irish Lass's excellent advice above, and others, we can address superfatting when we get to the dilution phase. Lots to learn! But I'm going to try to keep it simple!