What did I do wrong, and will it actually set up?

[Sarila]

Hello, everyone!

This last Monday, I made my fifth batch of cold process soap. All others have turned out fine (or at least, look fine -- I've only been able to test one, as the rest are still curing). But this one was different, and caused me some problems.

I made this one with coffee instead of water, for the first time. It was also the first time I had worked with castor oil. It took a long time to get get to trace (I was starting to worry about the motor in my stick blender, because it was getting hot), and I think I got hit with false trace. When I went to check on it after a little while, it was very, very hot -- hotter than any of the others had been, even through a towel and a piece of cardboard on the top. I pulled away the towel and cardboard, and it had separated in the mold! I dumped it all back in the bowl and blended until it was thick, and put it back in the mold. Now it is Friday, and the loaf is still really soft. I managed to get it out of the mold last night, hoping that full exposure to air would help it, but it feels like Play-Dough. Very squishy. It is holding the loaf shape, but it is so, so soft.

My recipe looked like this:

Superfat: 5%
Water (Strong Coffee): 8.82 oz
Lye: 3.23 oz
Olive Oil: 7 oz
Lard: 9.28 oz
Coconut Oil: 4.64 oz
Castor Oil: 2.32 oz
Espresso Fragrance Oil: ~2 oz (A bit less, probably -- Brambleberry says that 1.96 oz or something like that is is safe for 2 pounds of soap, and so I put 1 oz per pound into SoapCalc, but I usually try to err a bit on the side of less fragrance as I am measuring, for safety's sake.)
Coffee Grounds: 2 tsp (ended up being a lot more than that, as I had put some on the top as decoration and of course they all ended up blended into the loaf after the separation).

Is this loaf salvageable? Did I do something fundamentally wrong with the recipe? Was the separation due to false trace, or did I not get the fragrance oil fully blended in with the rest of it (I added that towards the end of blending), or something else? Anybody have some advice for a newbie to cold process?

Thank you!

 

[amd]

Double checked with soap calc:

Everything looks good as far as that goes. My only thought is that 10% castor oil is quite a bit, might make your bar soft.
The other thought is that you had a mismeasurement - either on the lye or one of the oils. Double check that your scale is measuring correctly (if you are US, 5 quarters = 1 oz) with a known weight.

A few things for the next go around:
Drop castor down to 5% (or less). Castor by itself is not a great soap, but it brings out the attributes of other soaps when used in small amounts. Some people don't use castor at all because they have a nice formulation without it.

Don't run the stick blender continuously. I stick blend in short bursts: 5-10 seconds on, then stir with the blender off for 20-30 seconds until I get to emulsion or trace. This will save your stick blender.

 

[newlee]

I'm new at soap making too but I once saw a demonstration on using lemon juice (instead of water) with soaping on Soaping 101. Well, her soap did not harden either it was basically mush. Coffee has a higher pH than water but lower than lemon juice on the pH chart. You may want to investigate there. Just my two cents. It just sounded similar to me. Hope it helps.

 

[cmzaha]

I soap quite often with coffee and it does not make a difference as far as making the soap soft. Coffee is just not that acidic especially after brewing with water. Lemon Juice is acidic and if not compensated for with extra lye it will add to the superfat and/or cause the batter to break. There is a good article written by our resident Dee Anna with good information on soaping with acids.

Back to the OP, unless you added water along with the 8.7 oz coffee your recipe is fine. You did not hit false trace after that long. False trace happens when using high palmitic and stearic recipes that cool too quickly and become thick. Lard, Tallow, Palm and butters are good at false tracing if soaped to cool. It usually happens quickly. The separation you experienced in the mold was overheating that cause your oils to separate. Some fo's can cause severe overheating, so I am guessing it was the fragrance you used. If you were able to cut your soap just put in on a rack and let it cure until it hardens up

Editing this to add: if you do actually get a false trace what I do is stop stick blending and let it sit a bit while gently stirring until the soap warms up, which will then thin it out. You will then want to SB to mix to trace. My main recipes are notorious for thickening up if I have let my oils sit to long or if it thickens when I add in my room temp liquids. I guarantee it will thin out after the lye solution is added

 

[Sarila]

My only thought is that 10% castor oil is quite a bit, might make your bar soft.

Thank you for that advice! I will drop my next batch down to 5%. This is the first batch I have used it with, but was hoping it would add some of the creamy/bubbly qualities that my lard/olive oil/coconut was missing.

Double check that your scale is measuring correctly (if you are US, 5 quarters = 1 oz) with a known weight.

That is incredibly helpful. I will be checking it tonight!

Back to the OP, unless you added water along with the 8.7 oz coffee your recipe is fine.

I didn't add any additional water, just the coffee. I was actually worried afterwards that maybe I was supposed to use a mixture of coffee and water, and maybe that had done something to the soap. Glad to know that wasn't it!

Lard, Tallow, Palm and butters are good at false tracing if soaped to cool.

That is very good to know. I have been soaping when everything was between 115-125 degrees, because I was under the impression that that would encourage the gel phase, which is something I want. I just like the look of bars that have gone through it. So I'm not soaping cool, especially when both the lard and the coconut are heated to melting beforehand.

The separation you experienced in the mold was overheating that cause your oils to separate. Some fo's can cause severe overheating, so I am guessing it was the fragrance you used.

I hadn't thought about it being pure overheating causing it, as I haven't had issues with that before. But it was a lot hotter than the others had been -- normally, I can't feel any heat on the top of the loaf when I touch it through the cardboard and the towel. This time, it felt like I had a heating pad under there. I usually like to get the soap to a light trace before I add a FO, because as a newbie, I don't know very much about how to handle ricing and such -- I've read about it, but that isn't the same as having to deal with it. I just know if it is going to accelerate, I want to be ready to go! But this time, I added it before that, hoping that it would accelerate a bit. I haven't had a batch take this long to trace before. This one easily took 2-3 times as long as any other I have done. Next time I try to work with this oil, I won't cover it for a while and I will keep a closer eye on it for the first hour or so. It was the first time I have worked with this FO in cold process, and I know each one has its own little quirks. Maybe this one is a superheater!

I haven't been able to cut it yet. I think trying right now would just cause it to squish down and flatten. But I will check it tonight -- maybe being out of the mold today made it cuttable. Not going to push, it thought.

Thank you, all, for the advice. I really appreciate it!

 

[Obsidian]

Sometimes soap doesn't behave the way we expect and its not always easy to figure out why.

I have one FO that thins out and stops trace. It will eventually trace but take a good 10-15 minutes and takes near two days to properly set up.

I'm going to say that 10% castor isn't a issue. A few years back, that was the common amount many member used.

I also use that much at times with zero issues. In fact, I've used up to 20% without getting soft soap. I didn't much like that recipe though.

 

[Mobjack Bay]

@Sarila I’m a relative newbie and recently produced a very soft soap from a recipe I have made multiple times without any problems. I was going to rebatch it, but the advice I got was to leave it alone for a bit. I cut it when it was just barely firm, which was two days after I poured it. Two weeks later it seems fine. Maybe you should give it two weeks