What causes separation?

[Barquentine]

Recipe: 30% ea. palm/olive/coconut, 5% shea, 5% castor. Superfat 5%
Shortly after pouring goes into gell and an oil pool forms on the surface.
I poured off the oil pool and weighed it. Surprise surprise ... it amounted to 5%. From this I deduce that the lye has grabbed exactly what it wanted really fast, and the remaining un-reacted oil - the superfat content - has risen to the top, being less dense.
Why is this happening? It's gelling too quickly?

 

[DeeAnna]

"....From this I deduce that the lye has grabbed exactly what it wanted really fast...."

I'm not sure I'd make that assumption. It could just be that the batter was not sufficiently emulsified to keep the batter well mixed and stable as it went into gel. That 5% might be fat that would have saponified had it remained incorporated in the batter during the entire saponfication process. Saponification takes time unless you're working with fatty acids rather than fats. You are right about the fact that the oil will rise to the surface if the batter separates.

 

[seven]

DeeAnna, since you're here, what would be the best option if such a thing happened? do you think there's any chance that the oil will reabsorbed if it ain't that much? or a rebatch is a must?

 

[Lion Of Judah]

i agree with DeeAnna , your 5% SF would not come to the surface just like that . it has a lot to do with emulsion , having mixed your batch into a proper trace. what temperature did you mix you soap at?

 

[Barquentine]

Mix temp was about 42C I believe. Quite comfortable to hold in the hand.
Having got it out the mold it has oil-filled voids in it. Well it did have.
I microwaved it, and did an experiment I have wanted to do for a while, added 3 dessert spoons of bentonite clay. I want to see if that much clay causes the finished soap to crack. Waiting for it to set at the moment.

 

[Barquentine]

Looks interesting. It just occurred to me. The fragrance was vanilla/lavender ... first trial from a new supplier.

 

[pamielynn]

First I would re-check to make sure your FO is designed for CP/HP soap. I've made that mistake before. Next, stop peeking at your mold while it's gelling Let it do it's thing until the next day, at least. It's like watching the mechanic work on your car - don't look until it's all over. If it finishes gelling and you're still getting separation, it may well be you are not getting a proper emulsion.

 

[DeeAnna]

Seven -- I'd pretty much do what Pamielynn is suggesting -- check my recipe and ingredients for any errors and practice patience on the current batch of soap. I think it is a strong temptation to want to "fix" a problem before it's clear it really is a problem. But that's just me.

 

[green soap]

DeeAnna, since you're here, what would be the best option if such a thing happened? do you think there's any chance that the oil will reabsorbed if it ain't that much? or a rebatch is a must?

Not DeAnna but I have had this happen on an avocado soap where I used too much avocado pulp. I stick blended it right in the mold. The soap came out ugly but it was usable and a pretty good soap after about a year cure. I am not saying you will require a year cure, but this is the way that one turned out for me.

Avoiding this (for me) includes soaping a cooler temperatures and taking the soap to a heavier trace. Lately I only get separation in liquid soaps if I try to go too high on the polyunsaturates (specifically if I don't use at least 25% coconut oil).

 

[seven]

thank you DeeAnna and greensoap

 

[Barquentine]

I really appreciate all the advice. Partly it might be my clumsiness. I taught my wife to make soap two years ago and since then she's the one who makes it. So, this is the first couple of soaps I made for ages and I had the same problem with both, same recipe different FOs. (Note: FO over here is never certified for use with anything, it's suck it and see!)

I rebatched both. Large plastic bowl, threw it in, good squirt of glycerine, microwave for 2min 30s. Mixed up, just like golden syrup with bits floating. I vigorously stirred in 2 heaped dessertspoons of green bentonite clay. Then poured and 'helped' it into the mould.

The good news is that now, a day or two later, one of them is already as hard as my CP soaps get at 3 weeks, enough so to be able to try it.
The soap seems to be quite a good mild exfoliant bar. It has a speckled appearance. I have the feeling it could be quite a popular product.

The other clay I have here is a mix of kaolin, bentonite, and chalk, very finely milled. It gives a soap with a smooth, slippy feel.

 

[eucalypta]

Seven -- I'd pretty much do what Pamielynn is suggesting -- check my recipe and ingredients for any errors and practice patience on the current batch of soap. I think it is a strong temptation to want to "fix" a problem before it's clear it really is a problem. But that's just me.

+1

Usually most of the oils will incorporate in the batch in due time.
Another problem you might create when pouring off the oils, is that your soap may become lye heavy.
The 5%SF, is the common safety margin.
Oils are a product of nature; hence the quality and amount of fatty acids may vary and the SAP value is an approximate. (Unless you'd be able to calculate this value by testing each new batch of oils you buy.)
So did you do a ZAP-test?

Regarding the FO's: you mention that where you live, nog specific cosmetic fragrance oils are available. Where might that be? That's too bad.
Perhaps online purchasing would be an option, to be sure you make a skin safe soap.

But also with cosmetic grade FO's, seperating is a rather common issue, especially with flower and fruit fragrances.

 

[Barquentine]

I live in Mexico, so buying FO from outlets in the USA is not an option. There are a large number of chemical factors here, so I find a large number of FOs too, but they are all sold 'at your own risk'. One of the larger manufacturers for instance is Mane, which has a rather spectacular Web site here. There's an amazing list of FO chemicals here.
However their site completely lacks information that would be actually useful to me, such as whether or not "strawberry champagne" is OK for soap or if it will thin a surfactant mix. Oh well. Just have to try and see.
Some of the FOs cost a fortune. Imitation "Ed Hardy" is available - at $150 a kilo! Obviously for fake perfume makers.