Weird gelling with my loaf mould batches?

[Emma Burlingham]

Hi
I have been using loaf moulds for a few months (I used to use silicone 6 x single trays) for my 100% plain tallow soaps. Lately I have been getting a strange effect through the middle of the loaf. I am soaping at about 45C and haven't made any significant changes to what i normally do. you'll see from the photo, It's like a reverse gel - there is a hard bright white chalky core and then it gels away from this centre to the edge. usually a partial gel would be the other way round wouldn't it?- gelling in the centre and then gradually fading. I have no clue whats causing this? It has been really cold here in the `uk but the workshop is warm. The recipe is tried a tested over a few years so i don't think it's that - i have tried soaping lower/higher temp, changing where i leave it to set, coving v uncovering. I have been soaping for nearly 10 year and am at a loss! I have added pic. Advice would be much appreciated!
Thanks so much Emma

 

[Mobjack Bay]

I have no idea what might cause that effect, but it looks cool.

 

[AliensrReal]

That is so cool. Idk what it is though.

 

[KiwiMoose]

Quick - call in the troops! Ding, ding @DeeAnna to the front desk please!

 

[Ford]

More cooling surfaces, with cavity molds. Verses loaf molds. I would guess this is heat related. What's in it?

 

[Emma Burlingham]

The recipe is literally 100% tallow - i make big batches, the below recipe is divided between 3 x 2kg moulds (from soap kitchen)
4500g tallow
1352g water
602g lye

soaped at around 45c and poured into a 3 x 2kg soap loaves. The moulds have a sturdy silicon liner in the standard wooden box

 

[UnScented Arizona]

Hi
I have been using loaf moulds for a few months (I used to use silicone 6 x single trays) for my 100% plain tallow soaps. Lately I have been getting a strange effect through the middle of the loaf. I am soaping at about 45C and haven't made any significant changes to what i normally do. you'll see from the photo, It's like a reverse gel - there is a hard bright white chalky core and then it gels away from this centre to the edge. usually a partial gel would be the other way round wouldn't it?- gelling in the centre and then gradually fading. I have no clue whats causing this? It has been really cold here in the `uk but the workshop is warm. The recipe is tried a tested over a few years so i don't think it's that - i have tried soaping lower/higher temp, changing where i leave it to set, coving v uncovering. I have been soaping for nearly 10 year and am at a loss! I have added pic. Advice would be much appreciated!
Thanks so much EmmaView attachment 75985

Change narrative to "Super Secret method for cool design" Looks awesome btw.

 

[Nona'sFarm]

Very interesting. Just for curiosity, have you tried treating it like a partially gelled soap - put the slices back into the mold; set oven for lowest temperature; after 2 hours turn off oven; leave in oven for an additional 4 hours. I would try it with one loaf and see what happens.
Know this doesn't answer your question, have never seen this. If that doesn't work -
can call it "Bullseye" tallow soap.

 

[Emma Burlingham]

Very interesting. Just for curiosity, have you tried treating it like a partially gelled soap - put the slices back into the mold; set oven for lowest temperature; after 2 hours turn off oven; leave in oven for an additional 4 hours. I would try it with one loaf and see what happens.
Know this doesn't answer your question, have never seen this. If that doesn't work -
can call it "Bullseye" tallow soap.

Thank you - ill give this a try!

 

[Tammyfarms]

I really like the effect but have no help with how to prevent it. Please keep us posted if you try reheating it.

 

[DeeAnna]

New one to me too -- I've never seen something quite like this. Looked at this thread yesterday and decided to sleep on it.

What came to mind this morning is the OP's soap might be somehow related to the "high water / low water" soap experiments that Auntie Clara (Clara Lindberg) did a few years ago. In Clara's soap, the border between the higher water portion and the lower water portion showed an odd halo effect similar to the OP's soap.

But I can't begin to explain the precise pattern in the OP's soap wihtout "cheating". In other words, I'd have to use a barrier to keep the various parts of the soap batter separate while filling the mold, much like Clara did. I gather the OP didn't do that. So count me clueless about why the pattern appears so clear and precise.

Here's the Auntie Clara article I'm thinking of: Intentional Crop Circles: Water Discount As A Design Tool
Followup articles: The Ghost Swirl
And: Ghost Swirl Soap Revisited: FAQs about high and low-water soap design

 

[dibbles]

A halo often shows up around large embeds when soap is gelled, so that has led me to believe it is temperature related. Although gel phase normally starts in the center, could it be possible that if the soap was cool going into the mold and had a heat source around the mold (heating pad for example) it might gel from the outside, but stop before reaching the center?

 

[DeeAnna]

A halo often shows up around large embeds when soap is gelled, so that has led me to believe it is temperature related. Although gel phase normally starts in the center, could it be possible that if the soap was cool going into the mold and had a heat source around the mold (heating pad for example) it might gel from the outside, but stop before reaching the center?

Yes, temperature is one aspect of this effect. but the moisture contents of the wetter and drier parts have to be in the right ranges AND the overall temperature of the soap has to also be right.

Embeds will typically be at a lower moisture content than the surrounding soap batter so there's the moisture difference.

You want to then control the overall temperature of the soap so the drier part doesn't reach its gel temp, and the wetter part does go above its gel temp.

So for example, the drier soap might gel at 170F and wetter soap might gel at 140F. If this is the case, you'd want the soap as a whole to warm into the range of 145-165F to get this effect.

If the temp of this example soap would rise above 170F for a long enough time, all parts of the soap would go into gel, and you'd probably lose all or most of this effect.

 

[KiwiMoose]

A halo often shows up around large embeds when soap is gelled, so that has led me to believe it is temperature related. Although gel phase normally starts in the center, could it be possible that if the soap was cool going into the mold and had a heat source around the mold (heating pad for example) it might gel from the outside, but stop before reaching the center?

This is precisely where my thinking went @dibbles. Being tallow, maybe the centre is a big 'stearic swirl' where the batter had cooled a bit in the mold, and then the gel occurred from there on out, to create the circle effect?

 

[Ford]

Hi, @Emma Burlingham mentioned, a "hard bright white chalky center". Which makes me think the loaf. Heated up enough to cook or dry out. Starting in the center. The ring is were it cooled down enough. To act normal. Could the dry chalky. Be a build up of something, without anything suspending it? Just guessing here like others. Does stearic act like this? Salt soap crystal?


This is a 100% Lard recipe. Not paying attention and it way overheated. Have no idea where the streaks came from. But they are white and chalky. Not sure if any of this makes sense. Here again I'm just guessing like the others. Good luck...mooo

 

[Mobjack Bay]

I was surprised by how translucent the soap looks in the outer ring. Does 100% tallow soap normally look a bit translucent?

 

[AliOop]

I was surprised by how translucent the soap looks in the outer ring. Does 100% tallow soap normally look a bit translucent?

My experience is that both 100% lard and 100% tallow bars can appear somewhat translucent, especially if gelled.

 

[not_ally]

Not paying attention and it way overheated. Have no idea where the streaks came from.

Maybe unintentioned, but a very nice effect.

 

[KiwiMoose]

@Emma Burlingham I reckon if you make this recipe again - try soaping a bit warmer. Not an expert here by any stretch, but just an educated (well, uneducated, but slightly more experienced) guess.

 

[Emma Burlingham]

Thanks for all your feedback everyone! I will try all these ideas next wekk and report back!!