Weights and Measurs Again...

[Shalisk]

First, HI!
This is my first post, just finished my first bars of soap (not a big batch, unscented, just to get the process done right) they are curing atm
I apologise for spelling and the like in advance.


Im sure this has been done to death...but I am a fan of math and numbers so this will drive me crazy:

My scale has a FL oz, measurement and a "Oz" Mesurement and all that good stuff (Its a crap scale though sadly, ill be getting a new one)

My question is, when it calls for the weight of your EO/SO do you use the FL or 'what ever weight you have been using the whole time?'


Also on a similar but unrelated note.
I have seen the people claiming that they have a production cost of under 1.00 per bar. And quick math tells me either im so very wrong or they are... Brambleberry for example says 3.4 oz of EO for a 5lb batch (For medium fragrance etc) (using lavander) if you go to Crafters choice, you are spending 24.95 for 4oz (Weight) of Lavender. (or 6.2375 oz) 6.2375 x 3.4 = 21.21, you get ABOUT 12 bars of soap from the soap mold from ED (1 inch bars) so in EO alone, your at 1.77 per bar.

I am not calling anyone a liar, honestly, I am trying to find out where my math is wrong (Beacause it clearly must be.)

 

[The Efficacious Gentleman]

You should stick to one unit as far as possible. For me, that is grams. I measure my EO out in weight to the correct % of my oils that I am aiming for (depends on the EO/FO in question) and I do it in grams. My scale is awesome and so it can very accurately measure the small amounts of EO.

There are one or two things that I done more in volume, like honey or sugar or SL, for example. Other than the fact that the weight would be a small number to try to accurately measure, there is no reason not to do this by weight, too. Personally, because it is a small amount, I'll still do it in tablespoons in my current batch size.

On to the last point, it helps to bulk buy. That said, I can get 95grams of lavender for 7.60€ plus postasge. I need at most 34.8 grams (3%) to make a 1.160kilo batch, about 20 bars. That's 2.79€ per batch, or 0.15€ per bar, based on a 19 bar batch and rounding up a little. Factor in the oils and lye, and I am well under 1€ per bar, more like 0.5€ per bar. That's $1.39 or $0.70 per bar in total.

Bear in mind, I don't buy in bulk really, compared to a lot of people.

 

[Susie]

I can't help you with pricing as I don't sell my soap, and therefore don't worry about the cost.

I weigh my oils and water in ounces. I measure my lye in grams. I measure additives like sugar and EO by volume, as I tend to use less EO than the recipes call for on most of them.

 

[Shalisk]

Well, they say they sell in liquid measurement bottles (I think) and I just have a hard time swallowing that 1 oz of lav (To continue our example) that costs about 7.50 (USD) weighs out to be the 3.5 oz (weight) that is required to make said 5lb batch of soap.

And buying in bulk (The site in question jumps from 16oz, to 25 POUNDS for 793 dollars, or 400 oz making each 3.5 oz recipe cost 6.95 per 12 bars or .67 per bar) seems absolutely insane.

I mean...25 pounds of lav? 800 dollars for ONE Eo that has a decent chance of spoiing or going bad or being tainted?

Either my math is still wrong somewhere or...this is far more expensive than I am willing to get into o.o;;

 

[Shalisk]

I can't help you with pricing as I don't sell my soap, and therefore don't worry about the cost.

I weigh my oils and water in ounces. I measure my lye in grams. I measure additives like sugar and EO by volume, as I tend to use less EO than the recipes call for on most of them.

Also, I am not selling my soap or even close enough to the point of 'giving it away as gifts' yet.

I am more to the point of trying to figure these things out, I understand that not everyone worries about prices or things like that but unfortunatly I am one of 'those people' that has to understand things I am doing, especially if I want to give them away to friends and family, and that includes knowing my costs.

I am going to use oz, and get a better scale so that I can be more accurate. But my concern is how they figure how much EO goes into a recipe, because as I said its hard for me to swallow that 1 Fluid Ounce of Liquid = Much more than 1 weighted oz. (And yes, I know its likely/possible but that does not mean I understand it yet)

 

[The Efficacious Gentleman]

It's good to know the bar/batch costs even when not selling. I don't sell, but just give to friends and family.

Maybe you need to look at another supplier. As I said, albeit I'm in Europe, not the USA, I get 95 grams (3.351 oz) of the EO for $10 which is a whole bottle.

It also seems that you're making rather large soaps. If a 5 pound batch makes 12 bars, you're looking at 6.6 oz bars! Mine are about 3.5 oz bars. That might also be a reason why you are struggling to get your bar cost down to what other people are getting.

So I'd say look at other suppliers and your bar size as a way to reduce bar costs.

Hope that helps.

 

[Shalisk]

It's good to know the bar/batch costs even when not selling. I don't sell, but just give to friends and family.

Maybe you need to look at another supplier. As I said, albeit I'm in Europe, not the USA, I get 95 grams (3.351 oz) of the EO for $10 which is a whole bottle.

It also seems that you're making rather large soaps. If a 5 pound batch makes 12 bars, you're looking at 6.6 oz bars! Mine are about 3.5 oz bars. That might also be a reason why you are struggling to get your bar cost down to what other people are getting.

So I'd say look at other suppliers and your bar size as a way to reduce bar costs.

Hope that helps.

I picked up a pair of these: http://www.essentialdepot.com/servlet/the-558/Silicone-Soap-Mold--dsh-/Detail

And it says it makes 11 "four to six pound bars" Wich is still a 5.8 oz bar, still HUGE I was gunning for closer to a 5 oz bar (Thats right around 'normal' right? ) I hope I didnt waste 75 bucks on molds that wont get done what I had hoped :/ These got such high reviews.


Also I guess I could straight ask you: "Is the EO the same weight as it is fluid oz or is it heavier than that? I know I probably dont make much sense so ill shush now "

 

[The Efficacious Gentleman]

The straight answer to your stright question is "it depends"

Different EOs have a different weight to volume ratio, just as different soaping oils have a different weight to volume ratio, which is why we tend to stick to weights for the oils rather than volume.

I don't know or use Brambleberry or any of the US suppliers, so I can't tell you what that bottle will make. On paper, a 100ml bottle of my EO is 95 grams, based on an average. You'd need to look at specifics for the bottle that you are looking at to see what it can and can't do.

 

[Shalisk]

How big of a bar do you make? I like the look of the 1 inch bars, but somthing tells me that 5.5 oz is a HUGE bar

 

[The Efficacious Gentleman]

Mine are 1cm by 5cm by 8cm. I might go to 1.5cm, but not much bigger than that - I like them to be easy in the hand.

 

[Susie]

I followed the link.

Here are direct quotes, "The Revolutionary Essential Depot (RED) Silicone Soap Mold is four to five times thicker than traditional silicone molds, and is the first silicone soap mold strong enough to withstand thousands of uses. In addition, it is engineered to provide years of easy service, and sized to make soap loaves that can be cut into 11 one-inch bars." "Designed to make a 4 lb to 6 lb 11.25 inch long loaf of soap. You determine the height of the soap when you fill the mold."

I am not sure where you were reading, "And it says it makes 11 "four to six pound bars"

Now, on to EOs...I just this last week ordered EO's from Wholesale Supplies Plus(WSP). I got 4 fl oz bottles for $9.95( most of their EO's are under $10 for 4 fl oz.) I did splurge and get 16 fl oz for $25.95 of lemongrass as I use it that much more than anything else. I also bought some wintergreen 2 fl oz for $12.95. I make 2 lb batches and use about 20-25 ml/batch. That will give me about 5-6 batches per $9.95 bottle. Which brings my cost in EO's down to about 0.25/bar if I don't use the expensive one. For the wintergreen, which is REALLY strong, I will be using less, but still about 0.40/bar.

I have just figured up how much the oils I use are per batch-$5.52 + EO 0.25 = $5.60/8 bars = 0.70/bar. I did not bother figuring out how much a tablespoon of sugar is, or the leftover coffee I sometimes use, and now I have made a batch with powdered milk someone gave me so they could get it out of their cabinet. Those costs are negligible.

I admit that I don't use fancy oils to make bar soap. I happen to think that lard, coconut, olive, and castor oil makes the perfect bar for me. I think it was Faith that said to save the fancy oils for leave on products as lye does not care what it turns into soap. Whoever it was, that is exactly the case.

 

[shunt2011]

I make 5lb batches of soap and get 14 1 1/4" bars per batch with a small end piece left. My soaps weight between 5-5.5 oz once fully cured. For essential oils you may want to check out New Directions Aromatics as they have a nice selection and their prices are pretty good. Also remember the more you buy the better the savings. I don't use a lot of EO's but use FO's and I will generally purchase them 1 lb at a time. My EO's I purchase at NDA.

 

[PinkCupcake]

I've been making soap for about a year, but I still consider myself as experimenting, so I mostly use a 2# mold, unless I'm making a soap that I know is popular with friends & family, and then I make a 5# batch. My bars are (in cm) 8.5 x 6.5 x 2.5 and weigh about 5 ounces.

When measuring ingredients, I like to measure in grams for greater precision. I don't sell, but I like to know my cost per bar. I use two fairly basic recipes. One is olive, coconut, and castor, and the other also adds PKO and lard. I buy online when I can, but mostly buy olive, lard & coconut at the supermarket. The last time I figured my cost per bar, it was around $1.65 US. I feel pretty good about that, and I know that if I bought all my oils in bulk, I could get my costs lower.

It's not an inexpensive holiday, though. I have boxes and boxes of tiny bottles of FOs, and dozens of little envelopes of colorants, and I still want to buy more and more and more...

 

[hdicreations]

I was having the exact same problem! So here is the formula I used (just for the base oils, no eo, packaging, etc.)

Hypothetically speaking, I buy locally, using Sam's club & Krogers
It costs me:

$13.88 for 3L of olive oil - 3L is 101.44 oz so 13.88 divided by 101.44 is $0.13 per oz.
$6.02 for 30 oz. of coconut oil
$4.16 for a gal. of lard
$16.03 for 2lbs of lye
$1.00 for a gal. of water

First you need to convert all measurments to the same unit type (I used fl. oz.)
Then divide the cost by the amount of oz.

When you get how much you are paying per oz., apply the percentage to your recipie
So, let's say your recipe is:

4.7 Lye 4.7 times .50 is 2.35 per loaf
10.9 Water
9.2 Olive
9.2 Coconut
9.2 Lard
2.0 Castor

When you get all your calculations for each ingredient, divide that by the number of bars you are getting from your mold. My mold yields 10 bars at 1 in. each, so my cost for my basic recipe is .82

I hope this helps...

 

[dixiedragon]

It also depends on your supplier. For example, Brambleberry has Lavender 40/42 (which is what most soapers use) for $13.50 for 2 ounces. But Camden Grey has it for $6.50 for 2 ounces. That's why most soapers don't have a one stop shop, b/c prices very SO widely. Generally, I get my oils and butters at Soaper's Choice and my essential oils and botanicals from Camden Grey. I get my fragrance oils from Brambleberry mostly.

 

[Shalisk]

I followed the link.

Here are direct quotes, "The Revolutionary Essential Depot (RED) Silicone Soap Mold is four to five times thicker than traditional silicone molds, and is the first silicone soap mold strong enough to withstand thousands of uses. In addition, it is engineered to provide years of easy service, and sized to make soap loaves that can be cut into 11 one-inch bars." "Designed to make a 4 lb to 6 lb 11.25 inch long loaf of soap. You determine the height of the soap when you fill the mold."

I am not sure where you were reading, "And it says it makes 11 "four to six pound bars"

Ah, I put bar instead of loaf, but my math is correct. 5 pound LOAF (/forgive/ me for my typo!) costs that much to make, I would have thought the fact that my math included cutting a 4 to six pound bar 11 times would have cleared up the typo. My bad. Math still works. Forgive my typo.

As for your numbers, you see, you did what a lot of places do when trying to awnser this question, you swapped out weight for a diffrent measurement.

3.4 Oz (Ish) is what is said by the berry website to use for a medium scent 5 pound LOAF of soap.

Mill are not Weight Oz, so this does not awnser my question fully, but it does put some more insight onto it, and for that I thank you.

So, 4oz, if you made 5lb Loafs would net you about 2.4 full Loafs with your measurements. (5 / 2 (Loaf v Loaf) = 2.5 6 (The most you say you get) / 2.5 = 2.4)

Sorry if this comes out snippy, its not ment to, such is the problem with being mildly autistic and having an obsession with numbers, piled on just waking up

Thank you for your help <3

 

[pamielynn]

New Directions Aromatics has 40/42 on sale right now: 33.3 oz for $63.27. They put this one on sale frequently.

 

[Shalisk]

I was having the exact same problem! So here is the formula I used (just for the base oils, no eo, packaging, etc.)

Hypothetically speaking, I buy locally, using Sam's club & Krogers
It costs me:

$13.88 for 3L of olive oil - 3L is 101.44 oz so 13.88 divided by 101.44 is $0.13 per oz.
$6.02 for 30 oz. of coconut oil
$4.16 for a gal. of lard
$16.03 for 2lbs of lye
$1.00 for a gal. of water

First you need to convert all measurments to the same unit type (I used fl. oz.)
Then divide the cost by the amount of oz.

When you get how much you are paying per oz., apply the percentage to your recipie
So, let's say your recipe is:

4.7 Lye 4.7 times .50 is 2.35 per loaf
10.9 Water
9.2 Olive
9.2 Coconut
9.2 Lard
2.0 Castor

When you get all your calculations for each ingredient, divide that by the number of bars you are getting from your mold. My mold yields 10 bars at 1 in. each, so my cost for my basic recipe is .82

I hope this helps...

See thats what I did for the cost of the EO, and I thought I was spot on with it, but I may not be. I understand bulk saves money but cutting the cost of the bar down 50 or even 75% is insane to think is all EO....right?

 

[Shalisk]

It also depends on your supplier. For example, Brambleberry has Lavender 40/42 (which is what most soapers use) for $13.50 for 2 ounces. But Camden Grey has it for $6.50 for 2 ounces. That's why most soapers don't have a one stop shop, b/c prices very SO widely. Generally, I get my oils and butters at Soaper's Choice and my essential oils and botanicals from Camden Grey. I get my fragrance oils from Brambleberry mostly.

Dang. Even in a virtual world I have to go to diffrent stores.

 

[Susie]

Ah, I put bar instead of loaf, but my math is correct. 5 pound LOAF (/forgive/ me for my typo!) costs that much to make, I would have thought the fact that my math included cutting a 4 to six pound bar 11 times would have cleared up the typo. My bad. Math still works. Forgive my typo.

As for your numbers, you see, you did what a lot of places do when trying to awnser this question, you swapped out weight for a diffrent measurement.

3.4 Oz (Ish) is what is said by the berry website to use for a medium scent 5 pound LOAF of soap.

Mill are not Weight Oz, so this does not awnser my question fully, but it does put some more insight onto it, and for that I thank you.

So, 4oz, if you made 5lb Loafs would net you about 2.4 full Loafs with your measurements. (5 / 2 (Loaf v Loaf) = 2.5 6 (The most you say you get) / 2.5 = 2.4)

Sorry if this comes out snippy, its not ment to, such is the problem with being mildly autistic and having an obsession with numbers, piled on just waking up

Thank you for your help <3

I am not good in math, so you all are going to point out where I go wrong with the following math. I am obviously(and yet again), wrong on my math somewhere.

On the EO cost/bar of 5lb loaves:
You will get 11 bars/5 lb loaf, yes or no?
So, 11 x 2.5 = 27.5, yes or no?
Then $9.95 divided by 27.5 + $0.36/bar, yes or no?

This is just on the EO's, but that is the largest part of the cost, so this is where you make or break a price point.

And I measure by volume on my EOs because those bottles drip so badly that I would waste half of my EO on the scale if I tried to weigh it. I normally use 0.5 oz PPO, so pouring into a measuring device is faster and easier on the waste. If I am not in a hurry, I use pipettes to measure it, so ml is my standard for EOs.

I also buy my oils locally, Sam's and Walmart usually, but occasional trips to Kroger when one or the other regular sources are out of something and I just NEED to make soap NOW.