Wah Happen? CHEM assitance needed

[Twisted Kat]

So I'm using hubs kitchen scale and it doesn't weigh in pounds or ounces but grams. So I convert all my weights to grams and proceed... still waiting to see if I totally munched this batch (batch #3) cause stuff happened that didn't happen the first 2 times. And yes, I changed the recipe and procedure but, that shouldn't have been a problem. (I think)

Worried I popped open the lye calculator and plugged in the original recipe that I got from a soap book in ounces, all is within acceptable quantities. Then, I plug in the grams conversion and guess what? NOT within acceptable quantities, turns out I used about 30 grams more lye than the calculator recommends.

Why did the conversion change the quantities? The weights should have been the same, right?

 

[MirandaH]

You should probably post your recipe so that everyone can see what you did. Sounds like it will be lye heavy. How much did you SF? 30 grams is a lot to be over unless your recipe is HUGE. Also, you should always put anything even from books in a lye calculator before you make it. Trust nothing!

 

[Twisted Kat]

It was supposed to be 5% SF but, my overage blew that out. I'm very new to soap making and this was my 3rd batch. My first two went fine so I wanted to brave goat milk as 100% of my liquid. Upon reflection, I converted the first two batches to grams also.

Recipe:
700g Olive Oil
420g Coconut Oil
130g Jojoba Oil
52g Almond Oil, sweet

207g Lye
496 g Frozen Goat Milk
4g Lavender EO

 

[judymoody]

Either you miscalculated or the original recipe was lye heavy. What book are you using?

You can enter your recipe into soapcalc.net in ounces and it will also demonstrate the weight in grams as well. No extra effort or math required on your part.

 

[Twisted Kat]

"Natural Soap Making", checked it out from the library. I'll double check my numbers. I will definitely be putting all my future recipes in a soap calculator.

What happens now, do I have to junk this batch? Will it saponify?

 

[DeeAnna]

Yowza! Yep, your soap is seriously lye-heavy and and I don't think any amount of cure time will get rid of that much excess lye. I'm betting you made a calculation error.

What you can do is rebatch the soap and add extra oil to fix the problem. You know how much lye and fat is in your soap, so that means you're ahead of the game compared to most people! Figure out how much extra fat your soap needs to react with the excess lye and give you the superfat you want. Grate the soap if needed and heat it with the extra fat and possibly a bit of water in a crock pot or in a large pot on the stove. When the soap is thoroughly melted and stirred to a smooth, even consistency, mold it up and let it cool. Check for zap after a day or so. If it's zap free, the soap is good to go.

Here's a tutorial on the general process I'm suggesting: http://www.soapqueen.com/bath-and-body-tutorials/tips-and-tricks/hot-process-hero-2/

 

[Twisted Kat]

Thank you, DeeAnna! I guess it's time to learn how to rebatch :roll: I poked around the lye calculator and discovered ounces to grams feature and that should fix any bad math in the future. I'm pretty sure I botched the conversion. I'm glad I can rebatch it and not lose all that oil. :-D

 

[DeeAnna]

Here's another tutorial for rebatching that is my favorite: http://www.pvsoap.com/instructions_for_rebatch.htm

This method doesn't specifically cover how to fix a lye-heavy soap, but I like how the author explains the different textures you'll see during the rebatch process. The tutorial also covers the use of a crock pot, which a lot of folks like to use for rebatching.

The main difference between "normal" rebatching in this tutorial and the "rescue" rebatching that you need to do is just the addition of the extra oil to react with the extra lye and add some superfat. I'd add that oil right away so it has the most time possible to tame down that lye.

My only addition to this tutorial is about adding the powdered milk. I suggest that you sprinkle a light layer of powdered milk over the soap and mix in well, sprinkle a little more and mix, etc. I dumped the powdered milk in all at once and ended up with lumps in the finished soap. <duh!> I would have preferred to not have the lumps, but other than that, this method of rebatching worked really well for me.

Good luck!

 

[PinkCupcake]

Here's how I convert recipes. It's easier than actually calculating ounces into grams.

I plug the ounces into the lye calculator, and write down the percentages. Then, I calculate how many grams of oil I need for my batch size (mold length x width x desired height x .7). I go back to the calculator, make sure I have the right number of grams plugged in for my total, and use the percentages to find how many grams I need. You only have to calculate the batch size once for your mold, unless you don't like the height and want to change it.

Edited: Oops, I forgot about the calculation being x .7 for grams, rather than .4 for ounces. Correcting that now! Thanks, soap_rat, for pointing out my mistake! :smile:

 

[soap_rat]

PinkCUpcake, I believe the .4 multiplier is for ounces, .7 is for grams.

 

[Twisted Kat]

Thank you all for the help. I'm one of those learners who gets more out of making a mistake. I've read plenty but, now that I have to rebatch because of a screw up it makes much more sense. I've had a bunch of chemistry but, it's been a while. This is FUN!!

I'll rebatch and post my results... Oh, you've all probably seen it all before and it's only fascinating to me! LOL

 

[Susie]

When you rebatch, you can add colors or more EO. Don't be surprised if your EO scent sort of disappears with the rebatch.

 

[Twisted Kat]

I'm getting ready to rebatch and I try the zap test and I'm not getting the zap. Since I've never done the zap test I don't exactly know what to expect so, I tried it on my first batch (a month old now) and it was the same. No "zap".

Do you think I got lucky and the lye completely reacted?

 

[Saponista]

If you want he amount of oils for the mold in grams you need to multiply by 0.7 not 0.4. I made that mistake and ended up with a seriously underfilled mold.

 

[Saponista]

Unfortunately you won't have been lucky and the lye completely reacted as it's a finely balanced chemical reaction. You need to work out how much extra oil you are missing and add that to the rebatch.

 

[Twisted Kat]

Ok, it'll be a good opportunity to learn to rebatch. I've cut it up so I can shred it better and it's super soft and mushy, like butter. The shredding is going to be messy. Could I just chop it up into small cubes?

 

[Saponista]

If it's still really soft it'll melt fairly easily, just break it up into small bits and add some water to help it dissolve. Some people add milk, cream or coconut milk instead of water. Don't forget to add the extra oil to reacot with the excess lye.

 

[DeeAnna]

Well, okay, now I'm confused. If I'm following you correctly, I'm hearing you say the soap that you think is lye heavy does not have any zap.

Hmmmm. The zap test is pretty definitive, IMO. Maybe the math error you thought you made ... didn't really happen? ... and your soap is really okay????

<...scratching my 'ead and muttering to myself...>

 

[Twisted Kat]

I'm really confused too. I put in the calculations to the SoapCalc from the book I got them from (very handy that I can enter the ounces and get the grams too) and as far as I can tell I was off by 60g oil.

Also, the calculator sometimes warns me of the higher than 40% lye concentrations and sometimes it doesn't. Just to test things I entered 3 different recopies for goat milk soap. I entered them several times each, the numbers are the same but the 40% warning only appears occasionally, is it random?

I can't imagine a book or reputable site offering a recipe that close to lye overload, especially for a beginner recipe.

 

[Twisted Kat]

Here's a picture just before I chopped it up for the crock pot.