Vinegar help!

[mx5inpenn]

I want to experiment with vinegar in the near future. I masterbatch lye as a 50% solution. Can I neutralize vinegar ahead of time and store it easily for use much later? Has anyone stored it for 3-6 months or more? I'm wondering because the acidity is what keeps vinegar "good" so I don't want it growing ickies.

 

[Spice]

What are you going to use it for? The vinegar.

 

[mx5inpenn]

What are you going to use it for? The vinegar.

I'm going to use it in cp soap, experimenting with it as a chelator and hardener.

 

[cmzaha]

When I have mixed the vinegar 50/50 it becomes very thick after the NaOH reacts with the vinegar especially if I let it sit for a few hrs. This does not seem to happen when I use vinegar as full water replacement. If you try it and you find it works I will try again. I would love to master batch 50/50 with vinegar but do not want to waste a gallon of MB. I still use EDTA as a chelator and the vinegar as a hardener with dual lye

 

[DeeAnna]

Sodium acetate isn't a chelator. (Vinegar + NaOH) Maybe you're confusing it with sodium citrate? (Citric acid + NaOH)

 

[mx5inpenn]

Sodium acetate isn't a chelator. (Vinegar + NaOH) Maybe you're confusing it with sodium citrate? (Citric acid + NaOH)

I thought I had read in one of the looong vinegar threads that sodium acetate acted as one too. Hmm, now I'll have to rethink that plan.

 

[DeeAnna]

Nope, but I agree that people do mention that from time to time. Here's a more complete answer --

A chelator is a molecule that has the unusual ability to attract and securely hold onto certain types of metal ions. What creates this unusual abililty is that each molecule of a chelator has 2 or more spots in its structure that it can use to attract and trap a metal ion. Each spot by itself is not very strong, so one "trap" isn't enough. A molecule must have multiple "traps" to successfully catch and immobilize the metal ion for that molecule to function as a chelator.

Not every metallic ion can be caught by a chelator. Only "multivalent ions," meaning ions that have 2 or more electrical charges, can be trapped. Lead, calcium, magnesium, iron, and copper are all examples of metals that can become multivalent ions.

Citrate -- the ion that is created from sodium citrate or potassium citrate -- is a chelator because it has 3 places in its structure to attract and catch metal ions. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trisodium_citrate

EDTA -- the ion created from tetrasodium EDTA -- is a chelator because it has 6 places in its structure that attract and trap metal ions. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethylenediaminetetraacetic_acid

Acetate -- the ion created from sodium acetate or potassium acetate -- has only one place that is capable of attracting metal ions. Because it has only one suitable "trap", it doesn't have enough strength to hold onto any ion it might attract. So it's not a chelator. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sodium_acetate

 

[mx5inpenn]

Thanks for the detailed explanation, DeeAnna. As always, it is much appreciated!

 

[Spice]

Nope, but I agree that people do mention that from time to time. Here's a more complete answer --

A chelator is a molecule that has the unusual ability to attract and securely hold onto certain types of metal ions. What creates this unusual abililty is that each molecule of a chelator has 2 or more spots in its structure that it can use to attract and trap a metal ion. Each spot by itself is not very strong, so one "trap" isn't enough. A molecule must have multiple "traps" to successfully catch and immobilize the metal ion for that molecule to function as a chelator.

Not every metallic ion can be caught by a chelator. Only "multivalent ions," meaning ions that have 2 or more electrical charges, can be trapped. Lead, calcium, magnesium, iron, and copper are all examples of metals that can become multivalent ions.

Citrate -- the ion that is created from sodium citrate or potassium citrate -- is a chelator because it has 3 places in its structure to attract and catch metal ions. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trisodium_citrate

EDTA -- the ion created from tetrasodium EDTA -- is a chelator because it has 6 places in its structure that attract and trap metal ions. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethylenediaminetetraacetic_acid

Acetate -- the ion created from sodium acetate or potassium acetate -- has only one place that is capable of attracting metal ions. Because it has only one suitable "trap", it doesn't have enough strength to hold onto any ion it might attract. So it's not a chelator. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sodium_acetate[/QUOTE

That's a good answer.