Vegan soap conundrum

[shella]

Hi Everyone
I have a problem let me see if I have understood what I have learned about vegan soap.
There is no such thing. I have been researcing for days

Palm oil .. Is made from plants. so if plant based where is it coming from.How to kill a forrest anyone.

Steric Acid can be plant based or animal fat. All the recipes I have seen do not state which one it is.
Then I remembered something that kinda shocked me. I am into organic farming I have an Aquaponics system so no chemicals allowed. The food industry is allowed to use certain chemicals and is allowed to be called organic now some of these chemicals a full haz suite has to be worn ( whats wrong with this picture )
so does that hold true for companies making vegan soap?
I will have to experiment with the vegetable based steric acid as my dreams are being affected. Shows you how much i have read lol.
has anyone made soap from vegetable steric acid. a person how has deliberatly bought it as vegateble steric acid.

 

[shunt2011]

Hi Everyone
I have a problem let me see if I have understood what I have learned about vegan soap.
There is no such thing. I have been researcing for days

Palm oil .. Is made from plants. so if plant based where is it coming from.How to kill a forrest anyone.

Steric Acid can be plant based or animal fat. All the recipes I have seen do not state which one it is.
Then I remembered something that kinda shocked me. I am into organic farming I have an Aquaponics system so no chemicals allowed. The food industry is allowed to use certain chemicals and is allowed to be called organic now some of these chemicals a full haz suite has to be worn ( whats wrong with this picture )
so does that hold true for companies making vegan soap?
I will have to experiment with the vegetable based steric acid as my dreams are being affected. Shows you how much i have read lol.
has anyone made soap from vegetable steric acid. a person how has deliberatly bought it as vegateble steric acid.

There is such a thing as vegan soap. You can make soap with hard butters and oils. Not sure what you are making such a statement. I've not personally used stearic in CP but do when I make shave soap. I make a soap that has neither palm or animal fat. Mostly liquid oils and it's a nice gentle soap. You can also make 100% Olive oil soap.

Some here are also using soy wax in their soaps instead of palm or animal fat. So, yes, it is possible.

 

[aihrat]

If you trace back anything far enough and scrutinise their impact on the environment and on animals, you could argue that almost nothing in this world is vegan. It depends on your conception of what constitutes "vegan enough" for the purposes of your veganism. There aren't any straightforward answers with regards to what is "truly vegan" or whether a soap product can be called 100% organic or whatever - you have to do the research and decide for yourself.

That being said, @shunt2011 is right. In practice, you can make good soap formulations without palm oil or animal fat. There is no such thing as a "must have" oil for making soap.

To add to what they said, you can also formulate a palm-free recipe with shea butter, mango butter, kokum butter and/or cocoa butter, all of which are rich in stearic acid.

 

[shella]

Thank you for your quick response I was stating my experience in trying to find a vegan soap recipe. I am glad that you found a way to make vegan soap as this post is in the beginner's section I thought you might have realized and taken that into account that my experience in finding out my question was not easy. Thank you for sending in the right direction.

There is such a thing as vegan soap. You can make soap with hard butters and oils. Not sure what you are making such a statement. I've not personally used stearic in CP but do when I make shave soap. I make a soap that has neither palm or animal fat. Mostly liquid oils and it's a nice gentle soap. You can also make 100% Olive oil soap.

Some here are also using soy wax in their soaps instead of palm or animal fat. So, yes, it is possible.

 

[dixiedragon]

I think you're stretching the definition of vegan way too far. Also, vegan does not equal low impact. It simply means that the product contains no animal products.

Anything that we consume is going to have an impact on the environment.

Also, chemical does not equal bad or unnatural. Some chemicals certainly are. But many things found in nature qualify as chemicals.

As to the chemicals being used on organic produce that require a hazmat suit - what are they? I can think of several options. For example, maybe they are using lime sulfur. Very natural, very safe for plants and the environment. However, it can be irritating to human skin, so if a person is spraying plants for 8 hrs, a hazmat suit might make sense. Plus it stains clothing and smells pretty strongly.

And BTW, arsenic and radiation are totally natural.

https://homeguides.sfgate.com/spraying-lime-sulfur-grapevines-27819.html
https://toxnet.nlm.nih.gov/cgi-bin/sis/search/a?dbs+hsdb:@term+@DOCNO+5826

 

[user 29721]

To most people vegan soap means no animal fat or animal derived products are used. With that said, palm oil is vegan. Most palm oil is harvested via deforestation, however one can acquire sustainably harvested palm oil. You are not required to add stearic acid to the soap. Again, define what you are after (or what your customers are after) and do your research. I carry small selection of soaps made with sustainably harvested palm oil, however they have higher price tag.

 

[shunt2011]

Thank you for your quick response I was stating my experience in trying to find a vegan soap recipe. I am glad that you found a way to make vegan soap as this post is in the beginner's section I thought you might have realized and taken that into account that my experience in finding out my question was not easy. Thank you for sending in the right direction.

If you go through some of the posts here you will find some suggestions and people have share their recipes freely. Do a search for vegan and it will probably give you a good place to start. I didn't realize you were posting in the beginners forum I did see that you've been here since 2013 so didn't know you were still a beginner. Sorry!

 

[penelopejane]

Quite a lot of vegans don’t like palm oil.
I think it’s stretching “vegan” a bit but they believe it impacts animals so they won’t use it.

I make soap and I don’t use palm oil or animal fats.
In fact all my soaps are vegan except the one I add honey to.

 

[Hendejm]

I feel like there are so many controversial ingredients in soaps it’s hard to keep up with them. Whether it’s palm,soy, beeswax,honey, animal fat, cocoa butter, etc....it’s exausting. For me - I pick what’s important for me and ignore the rest. I try to purchase responsibly sourced products but I don’t go overboard. Some say they hate palm but we probably eat it several times a day (vegans included). For me - I don’t like all the added chemicals in commercial “soap” products so I avoid them where possible. I do the same thing with the foods I eat. Everything else, to me, is just noise. That’s just my opinion and others are welcome to disagree.

 

[lenarenee]

I feel like there are so many controversial ingredients in soaps it’s hard to keep up with them. Whether it’s palm,soy, beeswax,honey, animal fat, cocoa butter, etc....it’s exausting. For me - I pick what’s important for me and ignore the rest. I try to purchase responsibly sourced products but I don’t go overboard. Some say they hate palm but we probably eat it several times a day (vegans included). For me - I don’t like all the added chemicals in commercial “soap” products so I avoid them where possible. I do the same thing with the foods I eat. Everything else, to me, is just noise. That’s just my opinion and others are welcome to disagree.

I think that's the only reasonable way to do it. After all - why make a product that you don't fully believe in?? Ok, yeah, people do it all the time - like those who buy items from Wal Mart to turn around and sell on Amazon for higher profit. But geez - that's just making a buck. Making something with your hands and eventually getting skilled enough at it to call it Artisan....there's no satisfaction in it unless you're proud of it!!

(don't get me started on people calling themselves artisans simply because they make something by hand but don't have the long term experience that sets them apart from the arts & crafts department!)

 

[penelopejane]

I feel like there are so many controversial ingredients in soaps it’s hard to keep up with them. Whether it’s palm,soy, beeswax,honey, animal fat, cocoa butter, etc....it’s exausting. For me - I pick what’s important for me and ignore the rest. I try to purchase responsibly sourced products but I don’t go overboard. Some say they hate palm but we probably eat it several times a day (vegans included). For me - I don’t like all the added chemicals in commercial “soap” products so I avoid them where possible. I do the same thing with the foods I eat. Everything else, to me, is just noise. That’s just my opinion and others are welcome to disagree.

Yes you have to have a product you fully believe in. Make it for yourself and others will come.

I do not eat palm in any of my food or use it in any products I buy or make.

 

[Dean]

Hi Everyone
I have a problem let me see if I have understood what I have learned about vegan soap.
There is no such thing. I have been researcing for days

Palm oil .. Is made from plants. so if plant based where is it coming from.How to kill a forrest anyone.

Steric Acid can be plant based or animal fat. All the recipes I have seen do not state which one it is.
Then I remembered something that kinda shocked me. I am into organic farming I have an Aquaponics system so no chemicals allowed. The food industry is allowed to use certain chemicals and is allowed to be called organic now some of these chemicals a full haz suite has to be worn ( whats wrong with this picture )
so does that hold true for companies making vegan soap?
I will have to experiment with the vegetable based steric acid as my dreams are being affected. Shows you how much i have read lol.
has anyone made soap from vegetable steric acid. a person how has deliberatly bought it as vegateble steric acid.

Soy wax is a palm alternative that is almost all veg stearic acid. Let me kno if u want a simple recipie.

 

[KiwiMoose]

I make only vegan, palm free soap, and I use soy wax at 20%
You might be misunderstanding stearic acid - although you can buy it as a stand-alone ingredient, some oils have a high stearic acid component (soy wax for example). This is just one of the fatty acids you need to make up a nice soap. Different oils will bring different properties to a soap. Again, happy to share a recipe if you wish.

 

[Dawni]

Quite a lot of vegans don’t like palm oil.
I think it’s stretching “vegan” a bit but they believe it impacts animals so they won’t use it.

I agree. I've met some of those, and in my very humble personal opinion I think it's slightly hypocritical because technically, everything we do impacts animals.

Now unless you go foraging for your plant food and eat them all raw, find a way to bathe and use the toilet where your "dirty" water isn't going anywhere there are animals, and live somewhere that has no footprint whatsoever, then everything you do will have an impact on animals. Heck, I'm sure even the stuff I mentioned above probably kills a few ants and a couple of frogs.. so what? They don't count?

Will they not use soy wax? There's probably some animal that got displaced from the land where the soy is planted. How about olive oil? All those rows n rows of trees probably killed off some animals too.

So, while I am greatly saddened by the impact of palm, I think it's become more of a trend, and a lot of the hype is because the orangutans are so darn cute, and probably look like someone's uncle or older sister more than a frog would (but some might argue.....)

Not sure if my rambling made sense lol but I also wanted to say, with the exception of the recipes that use yogurt to make HP batter fluid, and one beeswax and honey soap, most of my soaps are palm free and vegan as well. But not by choice. No animal products are used (which is gonna change soon btw) and I can't find palm oil. I use butters as hardeners, and I'm looking into soy wax as well.

 

[dixiedragon]

Also, organic farming produces MUCH less food per acre. So, what's better - to go organic but to use up more habitat? Or to use pesticides and fertilizers, but leave more forest, prairie etc open for wildlife? In the US, the amount of land under cultivation is actually shrinking, returning to wild, while the amount of food we produce grows.

 

[Clarice]

Wait, what? Vegans don’t use honey? I did not know that!

A guy I used to work with married a Jain woman, and he said she will not eat any root vegetables as they believe in the process of growing the vegetables damage organisms in the ground

I love learning new things!!

 

[Dawni]

Wait, what? Vegans don’t use honey? I did not know that!

A guy I used to work with married a Jain woman, and he said she will not eat any root vegetables as they believe in the process of growing the vegetables damage organisms in the ground

I love learning new things!!

Some do because they say it's not actually hurting the bees. Some don't because they say it does.

Milk products are another one. I've heard an argument in which someone stated "harvesting" the milk leaves none, or very less, for the calves and that the machines actually hurt. Some don't go that far.

I know about Jains..

But I have a question. Won't planting basically anything damage the organisms? Or is it that the root crops do more damage than the others?

 

[Misschief]

I've had customers ask about vegan soap. I do have a couple that are vegetable oil based but I do not call them vegan; I call them vegetarian-friendly. Most have been fine with that.

 

[amd]

In the US, the amount of land under cultivation is actually shrinking, returning to wild, while the amount of food we produce grows.

Not the case in SD. Our farmers are actually making more farmland by tearing out shelter belts, removing old homesteads (or in some cases, buying other farm land with houses and then selling the houses to be moved off property), and farming every inch to the ditch.

 

[Clarice]

But I have a question. Won't planting basically anything damage the organisms? Or is it that the root crops do more damage than the others?

Right? That was precisely my Q.

Wouldn’t anything that grows in soil theoretically damage these organisms?

Conundrums abound