Using Wine in Cold-Process Soap Making (Bad Smell after cure?)

[PlainJaneEssentials]

I've been making soap for a while and decided to try my had at incorporating wine into a cold-process soap in April, 2019. My recipe used was:

12 oz. Distilled H20
11.96 oz. Sodium Hydroxide
12 oz. Pinot Noir with Alcohol Boiled off and chilled to just above freezing

28 oz. Olive Oil
24 oz. Coconut Oil, 76 degree
16 oz. Palm Kernel Oil Flakes, hydrogenated
8 oz. Castor Oil
4 oz. Almond Oil, sweet

I soaped at room temperature (roughly 70 degrees F).

I added 4 oz. of Pink Sangria Fragrance Oil from Wholesales Supplies Plus.

I added 2 Tablespoons of Pink Kaolin Clay plus 2 Tablespoons of TD to one half of the soap batter for a nice pink.

I added 2 Tablespoons of Pink Koalin Clay and Black and Red Micas to turn the other half of the batter to a deep burgundy color.

This was for a 5# loaf.

When the soap was first removed from the mold, it smelled not so good.

After reading several posts from other soapers in the community, I heard that this was quite common and that I should sit tight until the soap in question was fully cured and that the bad odors should go away after a few weeks of curing time.

We are on week 5 and going into week 6. None of my other soaps have had these kinds of issues. . The soap in question still doesn't smell right to me. (In all fairness, I didn't think that the original smell of the FO was that great either, but hoped that it would compliment the natural odors imparted from the Pinot Noir.)

Is this normal for a wine cold-process soap? When will I know that the soap has reached its best self?

This one has me stumped! I look forward to your comments.

Thanks!

 

[earlene]

I haven't made wine soap, but beer soap took a long time to smell acceptable to me. A really long time, and it even had fragrance added. Hopefully someone else who has more experience with wine soaps, will come along soon.

 

[shunt2011]

It takes quite some time for the smell to dissipate (8-10 weeks). Also, your bars are going to be extremely cleansing hope your using a fairly high SF on those.

 

[PlainJaneEssentials]

I have a 5% SF calculated in with the recipe. Thank you for letting me know. I was worried that I was just not getting it right or that something had gone terribly wrong...

 

[KiwiMoose]

I made a 'champagne' soap with sparkling wine as the full water content (with the exception of a few ice cubes). I used 'strawberries and champagne' FO. Initially it was a bit stinky, but after 7 weeks of cure it is starting to come right, and i can smell the FO now. I would imagine that a Pinot Noir would have a stronger smell being a red?

 

[PlainJaneEssentials]

Usually red wines don't have more scent than white wines, but they will probably take about the same amount of curing time. (The only real difference between a red wine and a white wine is the color of the grape skins and whether or not the juice is macerated with those skins to get their red color.)

I truly appreciate the feedback and information. I had never used wine before and had a half-bottle left and figured, "Why not?"

Let's see where it is 2-3 weeks from now.

 

[Saranac]

The only real difference between a red wine and a white wine is the color of the grape skins and whether or not the juice is macerated with those skins to get their red color.

I'll try not to derail this thread too much, but there are more differences between red and white wine making than the maceration of skins (in fact, it's not uncommon to macerate white grape skins, too), and those differences may contribute to your soap's stink.*

For reasons of stability, almost all dry reds (like Pinot Noir) are put through a malolactic fermentation. This non-alcoholic fermentation--through the use of bacteria--converts malic acid to lactic acid, and it produces diacetyl as a byproduct. Diacetyl is the same chemical that gives sour cream, cultured buttermilk, and cultured butter their flavors, so I wonder if the smell is a reaction between the diacetyl and NaOH? Perhaps the smell is similar to a soap using buttermilk.

*Sorry--I also dabble in wine making, and drinking, and sales . . . .