Un-mold & Sell it

[cmzaha]

At the little market I do on Wed mornings there is another girl that has "Magic" cure all products including soaps that cure acne, eczema etc. I walked back to my booth one day laughing when I heard her telling a potential customer how fantastic her soap was and how good the gold on the top was going to be for her skin. She had colored the top of a hp soap with gold mica. This is the same person that accused me of being jealous of her products...

Now for the titile of this thread. Today I watched her helper trying to unmold, which was obiviously a charcoal soap form a multi square silicone cavity mold. Whiich I found interesting that it is same mold I pour my briny charcoal facial soap. Only one soap released with only 1 corner sticking and the gal kept trying to get the others out. I mentioned to my husband that I bet she was going to put the soap out for sale. After a walk past her booth she proved me correct, there was the charcoal soap sitting on top of her other unwrapped, unlabeled hp soaps for sale.

I just knew last week when I lost a sale because a gal told her friend not to buy handmade soap because it melts away, because she had purchased one at my booth. I informed her it was not my soap but had to have been when this girl was in my space one week. After convincing her to at least look and see if it was mine she said no, but would not purchase another handmade soap, neither did her friend. I just do not understand why people wanting to sell cannot figure it out. This gal has been around in markets I have done for about 1.5 yrs, so you might think she would have learned something by now.

Oh yeah I told her to stick it in a freezer and she would get it out of the mold as I was laughing while walking back to my booth my bad...:evil:

 

[KattChaos]

I'm gonna assume since she unmolded it at the market that she didn't let it cure?

 

[cmzaha]

I'm gonna assume since she unmolded it at the market that she didn't let it cure?

Yep, that was my point

 

[KristaY]

I dealt with something similar at my last show. SO aggravating!

A guy came up to me and asked how I can make any money selling at my price point. I asked why he wanted to know. He said he's a soap maker and his hard dollar cost is $3.60 per bar. The first thing out of my mouth was "you need a new supplier!" Then he showed me his ingredient list which was about a dozen oils which included hemp and jojoba. After that whole discussion he told me he doesn't have to worry about cure time since he does hot process and can deliver to his retailers for sale within 2 days. That lead to a heated debate and he huffed off.

I had another person stop and tell me they bought soap from a shop a couple towns away & was disappointed how quickly it dissolved in their shower, like a week. Come to find out, they also do HP and stock the shelves as soon as it's cut. I popped into that shop to check out their products and saw (and smelled) a large amount of their unwrapped soap had DOS.

We can chuckle and roll our eyes but these poor soap makers paint us all with the same ugly brush and it's so sad. I do my best to educate the general public but that can only go so far.

Trying to unmold soap at a show is crazy. Do they think it's like pulling a loaf of bread out of the oven? These soap makers haven't done proper research, study and testing. I get so discouraged when those soaps are immediately compared to mine.:cry:

Maybe we should just remind the general public that fine wine and cheese need to cure to be at it's best, so does good soap.

 

[KattChaos]

What's DOS?

 

[KristaY]

Dreaded Orange Spots. It's the look and smell of rancid oil. Very unpleasant.

 

[KattChaos]

Ewww. What causes it?

 

[KristaY]

Ewww. What causes it?

Well that's another long, and often discussed topic! In his book "Scientific Soapmaking", Dr. Kevin Dunn states:

"Dreaded Orange Spots are orange or brown spots that appear on soap some point after saponification is complete. They are caused by the oxidation of unsaturated fatty acids in the presence of trace metals. They may be controlled by reducing the amount of unsaturated oil, adding an antioxidant, or adding a chelating agent."

Basically this means it can be caused by using tap water that has trace metals in it, curing on non-stainless steel metal racks that aren't coated or covered with plastic wrap or similar, using oils that are high in linoleic and/or linolenic fatty acids such as hemp, canola, sunflower, soybean, grapeseed, etc. These are just a few of the possibilities.

The ways we can try to avoid and decrease the problem is to use distilled water, don't allow the soap to come into contact with metal that isn't stainless steel, use an antioxidant such as EDTA and/or BHT, and use high oleic versions of certain soft oils.

All these things can certainly help reduce the possibility of DOS but not always. I've had DOS appear on 100% CO, -2% SF cleaning soap and not on my 3% SF Hippie Soap which has 20% hemp oil. Go figure!

 

[CTAnton]

Carolyn,as always, I feel for you. I wonder if the rush to sell soap has something to do with trying to maximize whatever fragrance , if any, was used. I revisit soaps I made a year ago and I'm amazed how wonderful they are. But the scents are but a fraction of their former glory. Perhaps you can place a sign on your display stating something to the effect that soaps ARE like fine wine, and how you don't offer them for sale before their time. The phrase "carefully aged" would fit on a label, I think.
Not to hijack this thread BUT I got some soaps that develop DOS simply by enclosing them in small bags.They couldn't breathe AND were stored in a basement with little air circulation and plenty of humidity.My mistake.They were all beyond 3 months of curing. Unfortunately, i learn the hard way but that doesn't mean someone reading this has to make the same mistake. One of the many positive attributes of this forum.

 

[navigator9]

We can chuckle and roll our eyes but these poor soap makers paint us all with the same ugly brush and it's so sad. I do my best to educate the general public but that can only go so far.

.

Exactly.

 

[The Efficacious Gentleman]

I think much of it comes from believing the crappy information on the internet and not wanting to be properly informed because the lies are so much nicer. Hp doesn't need a cure, cp oils added at trace will be the superfat........people want to believe these things so even when the truth is pointed out they prefer to ignore it and keep on believing the comfortable, pleasing delusion

 

[BrewerGeorge]

Sounds like that soap I saw at market a few weeks ago. Uncured and soft HP.

 

[SoapTrey]

Carolyn, I think it's pure greed. :evil:

She's obviously been around and made enough soap to know, but simply doesn't care. I would have told her about the two girls who made the comment about it melting away and how they said they wouldn't be purchasing any more hand crafted soap, and how she's actually driving away business. You're probably a whole lot nicer than I would be...

 

[jcandleattic]

IMHO it's because everyone wants a shortcut, and HP to them seems to be the way to get that short cut, not understanding that saponification is NOT the same thing as curing.
I've been preaching this since I started soaping way back when. The myth that HP can be used immediately has died down quite a lot since back in those days, but it is still there, and KristaY is correct, bad soap from a bad soap seller (who sells uncured, DOS ridden soap) is not only hurting THAT soapmaker, it hurts all soapmakers in the community.

 

[BrewerGeorge]

Carolyn, I think it's pure greed. :evil:

She's obviously been around and made enough soap to know, but simply doesn't care. ...

It may be greed, but it's also ignorance - ignorance of how to run a business, plan ahead, and control inventory. The most frustrating thing about this problem is that there is no need for it to exist. I mean, there is some capital tied up in curing inventory, but if your business is so financially precarious that it can't handle a two-week cost float, it's not a viable business.

 

[cmzaha]

It may be greed, but it's also ignorance - ignorance of how to run a business, plan ahead, and control inventory. The most frustrating thing about this problem is that there is no need for it to exist. I mean, there is some capital tied up in curing inventory, but if your business is so financially precarious that it can't handle a two-week cost float, it's not a viable business.

You know how long it takes to cure and how long to make a batch of soap. I have tie up a lot of money in some of my fo's as many of us know, so I always have a few batches curing. I simply cannot afford to be out of DB, for one, and my customers would know if it was different from the last batch. It simply is not rocket science to learn how to keep stock on the racks. If a soap does happen to sell out sooner than expected you just have to wait until the next batch is ready, and I have been caught short a few times, but it does not justify selling inferior product. But I did marry a man that was in manufacturing management and we also owned a Formliner manufacturing company so I guess I really have lived with how to manufacture.

 

[Skatergirl46]

IMHO it's because everyone wants a shortcut, and HP to them seems to be the way to get that short cut, not understanding that saponification is NOT the same thing as curing.
I've been preaching this since I started soaping way back when. The myth that HP can be used immediately has died down quite a lot since back in those days, but it is still there, and KristaY is correct, bad soap from a bad soap seller (who sells uncured, DOS ridden soap) is not only hurting THAT soapmaker, it hurts all soapmakers in the community.

Exactly this! Saponification and curing are two different things.

 

[PatrickH]

My local Farmers market has a soap lady that has a 5lb loaf on a table and when you want to buy a bar, she cuts it right in front of you and wraps it in some type of wax paper. No mention of anything about it needing to be cured.
I'm assuming that since she is able to cut it with one of those wavy soap chopper blade things that it's probably just a few days old and probably not more then a week old?

 

[Zany_in_CO]

I'm assuming that since she is able to cut it with one of those wavy soap chopper blade things that it's probably just a few days old and probably not more then a week old?

Not necessarily. It can be fully cured and still cut nicely. I had a couple of 3 lb. loaves that were a year old that cut clean as a whistle a couple of weeks ago. We also have a few places around town that display pretty soaps in several different scents that you buy by the slice -- priced per ounce -- just like the deli! LOL They look like M&P to me.

 

[Cellador]

My local Farmers market has a soap lady that has a 5lb loaf on a table and when you want to buy a bar, she cuts it right in front of you and wraps it in some type of wax paper. No mention of anything about it needing to be cured.
I'm assuming that since she is able to cut it with one of those wavy soap chopper blade things that it's probably just a few days old and probably not more then a week old?

Our local healthfood store sells a popular brand of "natural" soaps by the ounce. You can cut it from the loaf yourself. I've checked it out and it seems fully cured.