Turning Lotion Bars Into Deodorant and a Question About Shea Butter

[DeeAnna]

And if you don't need a whole 7 pounds, here's a source that offers smaller quantities, admittedly at a higher cost per ounce: https://www.thesage.com/catalog/products/Babassu-Oil.html

It can be used in soap, lip balm, lotion, and deodorant, of course.

 

[Nate5700]

And if you don't need a whole 7 pounds, here's a source that offers smaller quantities, admittedly at a higher cost per ounce: https://www.thesage.com/catalog/products/Babassu-Oil.html

It can be used in soap, lip balm, lotion, and deodorant, of course.

Thanks! I did pull the trigger on the 7 pounds at the link @IrishLass provided though, so I should have enough. I probably should have tried it in a smaller quantity first just to test it out. It sounds like it's similar to coconut oil in a lot of ways so I should be able to find use for it all, I've been burning through my coconut oil pretty quick.

 

[Nate5700]

So having used this for a day I'm developing some opinions about it. It seems to be effective as a deodorant but it doesn't seem to work the same way as the milk of magnesia spray, which is confusing since they both have magnesium hydroxide as the active ingredient. With the spray, the water quickly evaporates and leaves a light dusting of the magnesium which seems to keep me dry. I imagined with the stick it would be similar, with the oil absorbing into the skin and leaving that dusting of magnesium. What I'm finding is that the oil is not absorbing into the skin as quickly as I imagined, it leaves a residue that lasts for some time after application. With it being so greasy, it's hard to judge whether there's sweat present or not. Still, the BO doesn't seem to be there, or at least not strong enough to notice over the fragrance. This makes me wonder if there is some other mechanism in play (maybe the magnesium hydroxide does have some antimicrobial properties?). Whatever may be the case, I'm not sure I like the greasy feeling on my underarms.

So, I'm considering reformulating the recipe to lessen that. My first thought was that maybe the beeswax was somehow preventing the quick absorption of the oil and maybe less beeswax would help. But giving it some more thought, common sense would say that more oil isn't going to make something less greasy. And, the stick seems to be soft enough as it is (I've already used about a quarter of it in a day and a half!). Plus I don't want it melting on me on a hot day. It seems like the real solution would be a harder and waxier stick, which of course suggests more beeswax. Less oil would absorb faster, right? And I wouldn't go through it as fast.

So, what I'm considering for next time (in addition to switching to the babassu oil) is upping the beeswax, maybe up to 40% of the recipe. But that's just a guess. Would any of you happen to have any feedback on that? Would 40% be too much? Not enough?

 

[glendam]

I bought babassu oil recently from New direction aromatics for around $8 a pound.

Lotioncrafter also carries it, a bit more expensive though.

I recently made a deodorant that works following a recipe I found online (it comes up if you google deodorant recipe like piperwai, a dr Jana wrote it). However I am concerned with the lack of a preservative and I hope the high alkaline nature of the ingredients is making up for it. My husbands likes it though it feels powdery towards the end of application. It does not feel greasy at all. I substituted the essential oil blend with my attempt at duplicating piper wei blend. It feels cooling and minty but so far no irritation.
The recipe calls for some form of magnesium, I couldn’t find the exact thing so I substituted with a magnesium supplement capsule.

 

[Nate5700]

However I am concerned with the lack of a preservative and I hope the high alkaline nature of the ingredients is making up for it.

What I read and hoping is correct is that you don't need a preservative in a product that doesn't contain water. Still, with my recipe as-is I'm probably going to go through it fast enough that I won't have to worry about it.

My husbands likes it though it feels powdery towards the end of application. It does not feel greasy at all.

This sounds exactly like what I'm looking for. Would you be able to link to or share your recipe? I wasn't able to find it in the Google search you suggested.

The recipe calls for some form of magnesium, I couldn’t find the exact thing so I substituted with a magnesium supplement capsule.

The magnesium capsule likely is magnesium hydroxide, which is what you want. It is mostly used as a supplement, and in higher doses an antacid and a laxative. But search for magnesium hydroxide powder on Amazon and you'll find it. It will probably be cheaper than breaking open capsules to put into your deodorant.

 

[Nate5700]

Update: Started having problems around 11:30 AM this morning and reapplied, first application was at 7 so that got me 4 and a half hours. Now it's 2:45 PM and I'm starting to notice the same thing. I seem to just be sweating through the product, and it gets sticky. If I rub my underarm with my finger and sniff I pick up some BO. It's still partially covered by the fragrance, but as this stuff sweats off I assume it will get worse. I may need to reapply again before I leave work. It just isn't working the way I hoped.

When I get home I'm going to rebatch what I have left and add more beeswax and magnesium. Hopefully that will keep it from being too greasy and actually give the oil a chance to absorb so the magnesium can do its work. If that doesn't work then I'll have to totally rethink my approach.

 

[glendam]

What I read and hoping is correct is that you don't need a preservative in a product that doesn't contain water. Still, with my recipe as-is I'm probably going to go through it fast enough that I won't have to worry about it.


The magnesium capsule likely is magnesium hydroxide, which is what you want. It is mostly used as a supplement, and in higher doses an antacid and a laxative. But search for magnesium hydroxide powder on Amazon and you'll find it. It will probably be cheaper than breaking open capsules to put into your deodorant.

You are correct in that if it is all oils it does not need preservative. This recipe has hydrogen peroxide, which I understand contains water. I decided to go with it anyway and so far I have not noticed any issues.


Yes, here is the link: https://www.drjanajoshugrimm.com/wellness-blog/homemade-piperwai-deodrant
Thanks! I will look it up that magnesium once I run out of the capsules since I probably won't be ingesting them anyway.

 

[glendam]

By the way, this is the oil blend I used, I will look tonight for the percentages, most of them were 0.10% so together they made like 1.5% of the total ingredients
Peppermint oil
Eucalyptus radiata oil
Orange sweet oil
Bergamot
Clary sage oil
rose essential oil
Lemongrass
Tea tree
Thyme
Lavender
Rosemary
Clove
My husband applied it at night when I made it, before bed, then the next morning he said it didn't feel greasy like our previous deodorant and that it had worked.

 

[Nate5700]

You are correct in that if it is all oils it does not need preservative. This recipe has hydrogen peroxide, which I understand contains water. I decided to go with it anyway and so far I have not noticed any issues.

Interesting. The hydrogen peroxide solution will have water in it but since hydrogen peroxide itself is a disinfectant maybe that would make a preservative unnecessary.

Yes, here is the link: https://www.drjanajoshugrimm.com/wellness-blog/homemade-piperwai-deodrant
Thanks! I will look it up that magnesium once I run out of the capsules since I probably won't be ingesting them anyway.

Thanks for the link! It's a little more complicated than I was hoping for and it makes a paste when I was going for a stick. But there may be a hint or two in there about how to formulate mine.

So, update: I ended up leaving work early because I was getting self-conscious about my odor and I wasn't sure reapplying was going to help. I got home and rebatched the 2 and a half sticks I had left, adding 1.1 ounces of beeswax and 0.2 oz of additional magnesium. By the time it cooled the old stuff was worn off enough that I could try applying. It still has a greasy/sticky feel when applied and I thought "here we go again". But, after an hour or so I noticed that the oil had all seemed to absorb and I was just left with a dry stickiness. The odor was gone. So, it looks like this may have worked. If I smell OK in the morning I might be brave enough to try it at work, but I'll probably bring some of the spray for backup.

So, assuming this works out...question: The beeswax is very sticky and even if it ends up working it feels nasty to put on. I am considering going with candelilla wax in the future as during my Googling I read somewhere that it is less sticky and harder than beeswax. I think some additional hardness might be beneficial, but mainly I want to get rid of the sticky. Am I on the right track here? Would anyone have something else they'd suggest?

 

[glendam]

I found this post from Marie about candelilla wax. She says as far as hardness is comparable to beeswax but it does absorb better. You may also want to search her site for her deodorant recipes (though she herself is against baking soda on the skin now). Lastly, is some of her latest salves or body butters I have seen her use a technique where she cools down the mix in ice bath and moves it out to either suspend powders or get a specific texture, not sure if you need that in your recipe. Here is the link: https://www.humblebeeandme.com/quick-guide-candelilla-wax-liquid-oil-ratios/

 

[earlene]

If you continue reading through the Defunk de Pits thread, you will see there was discussion about what additives to use such as candilla wax, and various other additives to help solidify the stick with magnesium hydroxide and babassu, one of which was beeswax. Beeswax was opined to be less desirable than other potential ingredients.

I travel a lot and carry my deo in a hot car when I travel (heat intensifies in a car when it is parked in a parking lot when I am not driving; heat intensifies in the trunk of the car even while driving) and with just babassu & Mg(OH)2 MgSO4 it was melting. Hence my concerns about using additives to increase the melt point of the deo stick.

What is your specific recipe right now? Is it still with CO? CO doesn't absorb well into the skin in my experience. Under the armpit area, CO sat on my skin and felt greasy and took way too long to dry (I did not use it with magnesium hydroxide - this was long before I used the recipe suggested via that thread). And it stained my clothes BIG TIME.

Edit: To correct my erroneous use of chemistry shorthand for mg. hydroxide. I used the mag sulfate when I meant magnesium hydroxide, which is Mg(OH)2

 

[Nate5700]

found this post from Marie about candelilla wax. She says as far as hardness is comparable to beeswax but it does absorb better. You may also want to search her site for her deodorant recipes (though she herself is against baking soda on the skin now).

Thanks for the link. I'll give it a look-over. I did find a post searching this forum that said to use candelilla wax at about 2/3 what you would use for beeswax, because of the hardness difference. Not sure about the baking soda on the skin thing, but I'm not using baking soda so not really a concern for now.

Lastly, is some of her latest salves or body butters I have seen her use a technique where she cools down the mix in ice bath and moves it out to either suspend powders or get a specific texture, not sure if you need that in your recipe. Here is the link: https://www.humblebeeandme.com/quick-guide-candelilla-wax-liquid-oil-ratios/

That's interesting. I do need the magnesium powder suspended well because I don't think it's soluble so it will settle. It seems like putting the bars in the freezer right after pouring is working, both for tempering the shea butter and suspending the powder.

If you continue reading through the Defunk de Pits thread, you will see there was discussion about what additives to use such as candilla wax, and various other additives to help solidify the stick with MgSO4 and babassu, one of which was beeswax. Beeswax was opined to be less desirable than other potential ingredients.

Still need to get through that thread! I said in another thread that I have an experimenting problem, I want to just go for it and see what happens when I could read through these threads and see where people have already been where I'm at. The first step is admitting you have a problem...

I definitely can see why beeswax would be considered less desirable at this point, it's just too sticky. Just magnesium powder and oil would certainly be too soft though, hence why I started looking for something else.

Also, MgSO4? Is that magnesium sulfate? I've been using magnesium hydroxide, Mg(OH)2, which has been effective (at least in the spray form). Does "Defunk de Pits" cover the differences, perchance? I don't want to be using the wrong thing!

I travel a lot and carry my deo in a hot car when I travel (heat intensifies in a car when it is parked in a parking lot when I am not driving; heat intensifies in the trunk of the car even while driving) and with just babassu & MgSO4 it was melting. Hence my concerns about using additives to increase the melt point of the deo stick.

Definitely, I don't think this is something you could keep in a hot car, even with a high percentage of wax. I was worried about mine just in my warm house (not so warm today though...), so the other two sticks I'm not using yet are still in the fridge.

What is your specific recipe right now? Is it still with CO? CO doesn't absorb well into the skin in my experience. Under the armpit area, CO sat on my skin and felt greasy and took way too long to dry (I did not use it with MgSO4 - this was long before I used the recipe suggested via that thread). And it stained my clothes BIG TIME.

After rebatching yesterday, I mathed it out and what's in it now should be close to the following:

2.6 oz Beeswax
2.1 oz Shea Butter
1.5 oz Coconut Oil
0.4 oz Mg(OH)2
0.1 oz Fragrance
Makes (3) 2.2 fl oz sticks

So yes, still with CO. And it didn't soak through to my polo but my gray undershirt was stained darker on the underarms. Babassu comes today, candelilla wax tomorrow, so I may try another batch this weekend. If the babassu does absorb better then maybe I can get away with less wax, but I think the hardness of the stick is about right now that I've rebatched. And like I said before I searched the forum and saw that using 2/3 in candelilla wax what you use in beeswax gets you roughly the same hardness, so I was going to reformulate based on that.

 

[earlene]

You are right! Not MgSO4! Old habit left over from some old chemisty student days. Not even recent either! No MgOH2, yes. My mistake in trying to save typing out magnesium hydroxide and typing the wrong thing! So Sorry! I really should just type it out longways to avoid those types of mistakes.

Yes, I get that about wanting to experiment. I do that sometimes, too. But reading through everyone's experience first, does help me to glean the more helpful hints and possibly avoid the less successful ideas I come up with. Not always, but more often now than when I was new and wanted to try everything right away.

I have not tried it with shea butter, but I find shea to be greasy as well, so suspect it will also stain clothing. But I know it will definitely melt faster. The problem with shea, even more than possibly staining clothes, and that's a big one, is that it can become grainy if not tempered. Rolling grainy shea on my pits doesn't sound comfortable to me, but I haven't done it, so I don't know for sure.

Sounds like you are having a great time with this experimentation, though, so that's cool.

 

[Nate5700]

Sounds like you are having a great time with this experimentation, though, so that's cool.

Definitely, that's the fun part for me. And that's the way I learn things too, I have to get my hands in it and see why things work the way they do. I can just repeat what someone else has done but it doesn't help me understand why you do it that way. That said, if I'd do the reading I could have saved burning an hour and a half of vacation yesterday...

You are right! Not MgSO4! Old habit left over from some old chemisty student days. Not even recent either! No MgOH2, yes.

Phew. Yes if I remember right MgSO4 comes up quite a bit in chemistry class. The confusion is understandable.

I have not tried it with shea butter, but I find shea to be greasy as well, so suspect it will also stain clothing. But I know it will definitely melt faster. The problem with shea, even more than possibly staining clothes, and that's a big one, is that it can become grainy if not tempered. Rolling grainy shea on my pits doesn't sound comfortable to me, but I haven't done it, so I don't know for sure.

It's hard to tell right now with both the coconut and the shea in there which, if not both, is causing the greasiness. Next batch I'm replacing the coconut with babassu, so if it stains we'll know it was from the shea. As far as it being grainy, trying to avoid that was one of the questions driving me to start this thread. It seems like melting it completely and putting it in the freezer does the trick as far as keeping it from being grainy. We'll see if that changes over time.

Edit: So after reading the link @glendam provided and that person's experience with candelilla wax and olive oil, I think I'm going to go with candelilla wax at closer to 25% of the recipe (3:1 oil to wax). Realizing that my oils are going to be harder than olive, but I'll also be at a higher ambient temperature most of the time. After @earlene made the comment about shea butter and greasiness, I'm thinking about reducing or even eliminating the shea butter and just going with babassu. Not sure yet.

Edit again: Gave up on the stick and applied some spray at about 2 PM. Essentially the same problems as yesterday just not to the same extent. It works fine at home but when I get to any kind of moving around or being somewhat active the stuff just sweats off and leaves my underarms a greasy, smelly mess. I think I'm going to go with all babassu on the next attempt, the shea butter was in there because it was in the original lotion bar recipe but it may be part of the problem and I can't think of any real benefits from it.

 

[Nate5700]

So I realize this thread kinda died out but I thought I'd post an update for anyone who comes across it and may think they want to try this.

I tried again with the babassu oil and candelilla wax. The candelilla wax successfully got rid of the stickiness from the beeswax, but the product stays a little greasy on the skin. As far as its effectiveness, well, it's just not doing the job. I'm suspending this experiment for now until I have time to do some more research on how to do it effectively. I'm back to the milk of magnesia spray today which has worked much better for me.

 

[HowieRoll]

At the risk of sounding like a parrot, as this has already been suggested, I'm going to encourage you to read the Defunk da Pits thread, if you haven't already. There is a lot of great information there. One way my deodorant recipe is different from yours (from post #32) is I use 33% magnesium hydroxide in my current recipe. Others use less, some use more (up to about 50%, if I recall correctly). The magnesium hydroxide a powerful odor-controlling ingredient, and since everyone has a different body chemistry it's a function of figuring out what works best for you. Anyway, just some food for thought!

 

[Nate5700]

At the risk of sounding like a parrot, as this has already been suggested, I'm going to encourage you to read the Defunk da Pits thread, if you haven't already. There is a lot of great information there. One way my deodorant recipe is different from yours (from post #32) is I use 33% magnesium hydroxide in my current recipe. Others use less, some use more (up to about 50%, if I recall correctly). The magnesium hydroxide a powerful odor-controlling ingredient, and since everyone has a different body chemistry it's a function of figuring out what works best for you. Anyway, just some food for thought!

Appreciate the thoughts. I am using magnesium hydroxide powder but I suspect it may be not nearly enough. Next time I try I will up the Mg(OH)2 quite a bit I think. Reading that thread is part of what I mean by "doing more research". I just gotta take the time. But probably more magnesium and less babassu since it was still pretty oily, at the very least. I'm also sort of wondering what some activated charcoal and/or baking soda would do. But reading that thread will be the first step.

 

[SoaperForLife]

I'm also sort of wondering what some activated charcoal and/or baking soda would do. But reading that thread will be the first step.

Do yourself a favor and stay away from the baking soda - it can be a horrible irritant and IMHO, the magnesium hydroxide is way better. Just listen to what HowieRoll advised as far as increasing the percentage of it in your recipe and you might end up being quite happy. I incorporate a bit of kaolin clay in my recipe, others use arrowroot powder to help with the greasy feeling.

 

[WeaversPort]

Do yourself a favor and stay away from the baking soda - it can be a horrible irritant and IMHO, the magnesium hydroxide is way better. Just listen to what HowieRoll advised as far as increasing the percentage of it in your recipe and you might end up being quite happy. I incorporate a bit of kaolin clay in my recipe, others use arrowroot powder to help with the greasy feeling.

I'm just an echo here, stay away from baking soda. The ph is wrong for the skin. I've seen people like clay or arrowroot powder for absorbing the oily feel.