Troubleshooting Tallow Soap

[soadsudz]

Hey everyone!

so I am trying to troubleshoot this tallow soap recipe I put together. I wanted to add some more bubbles and lather to 100% tallow recipe so I added a little coconut and castor

Tallow 90%
Coconut 5%
Castor. 5%

super fat 5% lye calculator said 134.57g for 1000g batch I rounded down to 134

its only been cured for a couple of weeks but its pretty drying..... the bubbles I wanted are perfect

I know I know patience! but I've been making soap for a long time with plant based oils and I never experienced my hands being dry after testing it out after a week. Tallow is new for me. I had referenced another thread on here about tallow being pretty cleansing (Does anyone find high % tallow soaps drying?) but it was from 2017 so I wanted to reach out and see if anyone had any more insight on the topic.

Thank you!

 

[lsg]

If you want a more bubbly lather, I think you will need to add more coconut oil.

 

[soadsudz]

If you want a more bubbly lather, I think you will need to add more coconut oil.

the bubbles are good in recipe but the bar is drying

might have to wait and see after a full cure

 

[Kari Howie]

I have little insight to offer because I’ve never used tallow, but when I ran your formula through soapcalc (assuming you were using beef tallow) it showed a cleansing factor of 11, which is pretty low so you’d think it would be gentle and not strip the oils off your skin. However the conditioning number was only 41 so maybe that accounts for the dryness. Also, I know tallow, unlike lard for example, can be used to make candles presumably because of its high hardness factor. I wonder if you add more conditioning oils and/or butters if that would alleviate some of the drying effects of your soap. Maybe the tallow experts can weigh in.

 

[Ladka]

Hi, Soadsudz!
It surprises me that soap with high (beef) tallow should be drying to your skin.
If you usually do not use CO or use it in lower percentages in your formulas I guess CO is the culprit.
I love beef tallow in soap and use it in high percentages. Since my young grandsons like soap to produce bubbles and/or lather I use up to 3 % CO, not more, cause it strips my daughter's skin. To enhance bubbling I use sugar and a SF not higher than 2 % instead.
My current recipes all contain at least 90 % beef tallow and my daughter loves it, her skin being very sensitive and dry.

 

[soadsudz]

Hi, Soapsudz!
It surprises me that soap with high (beef) tallow should be drying to your skin.
If you usually do not use CO or use it in lower percentages in your formulas I guess CO is the culprit.
I love beef tallow in soap and use it in high percentages. Since my young grandsons like soap to produce bubbles and/or lather I use up to 3 % CO, not more, cause it strips my daughter's skin. To enhance bubbling I use sugar and a SF not higher than 2 % instead.
My current recipes all contain at least 90 % beef tallow and my daughter loves it, her skin being very sensitive and dry.

in my regular bars that are plant based oils I use coconut oil at 20% so its confusing to me the only thing I can blame it on is not allowing for a full cure. we shall wait and see!

 

[Tammyfarms]

It surprises me that this bar is drying. I use primarily lard in my base recipe but also have made high tallow soaps and found them to not be drying. Looking forward to hearing what you think in 4-6 weeks. Did you add any other additives?

 

[AliOop]

in my regular bars that are plant based oils I use coconut oil at 20% so its confusing to me the only thing I can blame it on is not allowing for a full cure. we shall wait and see!

Tallow has a much smaller percentage of cleansing FAs than CO, but still enough of them that if you are combining it with 20% CO, that soap would definitely feel more drying to me. Here is how you can do some loose predictions about that kind of thing.

Compare same recipe with no tallow, and then with added tallow. Add up the total of lauric + myristic numbers for the two; also check the Cleansing number. You will see that for both of these indicators, the total goes up when you add tallow.

If you remember that the Cleansing number really predicts how much oil the soap will strip off your skin, you can predict whether the change to your recipe will create a soap that will feel more drying. With experimentation, you will find the sweet spot for your skin, and those of your users. For me and for many others, that is at the very bottom of the Cleansing scale, not the middle, and certainly not the top.

HTH!

 

[soadsudz]

Tallow has a much smaller percentage of cleansing FAs than CO, but still enough of them that if you are combining it with 20% tallow, that soap would definitely feel more drying to me. Here is how you can do some loose predictions about that kind of thing.

Compare same recipe with no tallow, and then with added tallow. Add up the total of lauric + myristic numbers for the two; also check the Cleansing number. You will see that for both of these indicators, the total goes up when you add tallow.

If you remember that the Cleansing number really predicts how much oil the soap will strip off your skin, you can predict whether the change to your recipe will create a soap that will feel more drying. With experimentation, you will find the sweet spot for your skin, and those of your users. For me and for many others, that is at the very bottom of the Cleansing scale, not the middle, and certainly not the top.

HTH!

so the soap calculator when its 100% tallow the cleansing is at 8 and condition is at 40

when I do 90% tallow 5% coconut and 5% castor cleansing increases to 10.55 and condition 41.4

 

[Mobjack Bay]

Based on your first post, your tallow soap is made with 90% tallow, 5% each CO and castor oil and 5% superfat. Correct? It should not feel drying. Yes, tallow has 8% lauric + myristic fatty acids which ups the cleansing compared with 1% in lard. When combined with 5% CO, you’re getting into a range that will produce some bubbles, but the soap should still be on the mild side. I make a 100% tallow soap that is not at all drying. I always use low superfat 2-3% and include sodium citrate to reduce soap scum. By any chance, do you have hard water? I’m wondering if the soap is leaving a bit of soap scum residue on the skin that then ends up feeling drying.

 

[Quilter99755]

Very little experience with tallow as I've only done one batch which I had rendered and didn't seem to notice much about it. So went back to using lard.

At some point in my soaping, due to some thread, someone said that soap scum was horrible on plumbing, especially old houses. We have hard water and will never get a water softener...don't ask, long story. I was having issues with scum in the showers so I did change my formula to 2% super fat and started using sodium gluconate rather than sodium citrate. At that point I noticed less scum in the showers and I thought a softer feel on my skin.

I do a soap for the boys in the family with 80% lard, CO 15% and castor oil at 5%. They love it. For the ladies of the family I use lard at 45-60%, a butter (usually cocoa or shea) at 10%, and the rest RBO. I add soribtol for extra bubbles in each recipe as the boys don't think soap is nice if it doesn't have a lot of bubbles.

So if you have hard water, you might think about using a smaller super fat...it has made a big difference in my lard soaps. I also try to soap often enough that I can give my soaps a long cure( 6-12 months.) I think that makes a huge difference in mildness and longevity. I stopped using CO at all in my lady's recipe as I have very dry and very old skin. The 15% I use in the boys recipe will irritate my skin. I hope this helps a bit in your journey.