Trouble shooting, please help.

[Sas]

Hi

First of, I'm a newbie here and I'm so glad I found this forum. I'm starting this new hobby as I'm bored at home during the pandemic.
So far I made 2 batches of soap and I find the process therapeutic! Anyway I been searching for an answer for a week now why my soap look like this.

It is glycerin rivers or glycerin oozing? Please help me identify what is the problem here. Any trick or tip are very appreciate. I'm trying to make a natural soap and palm free.
From what I learn 5-7% is a good range for superfat but what is a good range for water percent of oil weight? I'm using soapcal for the calculation and its ask for it.

My soap 1 recipe is 5% superfat and water percent of oil weight is 36% .
5% castor oil: 1 oz
5% cocoa butter: 1 oz
25% coconut oil: 5 oz
20% shea butter: 4 oz
45% Olive oil: 9 oz
water: 7.20 oz
Lye: 2.77 oz
Fragrance: 0.63 oz

My soap 2 recipe is also 5% superfat and water percent of oil weight is 36% .
25% Coconut oil: 7.5 oz
5% Castor oil: 1.5 oz
35% Olive oil: 10.5 oz
15% Cocoa butter: 4.5 oz
20% Rice bran oil: 6 oz
Water: 10.8 oz (4.05oz aloevera + 6.75 bottle water)
Lye: 4.19 oz
EO: 0.94 oz

NOTE: I force it to gel by wrapping my mold with towel after until I unmold it.

Please let me know what are your thought, thank you in advance,
Sas

 

[GemstonePony]

Welcome! When were these soaps made? What was your process? And does the oozing substance mix with water?

 

[Sas]

Welcome! When were these soaps made? What was your process? And does the oozing substance mix with water?

Hi @GemstonePony thank you for the respond. Soap 1 were made on 10/11/2020 and Soap 2 were made on 10/18/2020. I did CP and unmolded it about 18 hrs after. Im not sure what you mean by "does the oozing substance mix with water"? But when I add lye to water, it dissolved well and I also used a strainer. When I add lye solution to oil, it seems fine but I might have over mixed it as it get very thick by the time I start pouring it to the mold. Please let me know if this doesn't answer your question.

Best,
Sas

 

[Ford]

Looks like it over heated? Just a thought.

 

[KiwiMoose]

Hi @GemstonePony Im not sure what you mean by "does the oozing substance mix with water"?

What she is asking is - if you take the 'wet' part of your soap and drop it in water, is it water-soluble? If not, then we can determine that it is oil. If it mixes with water we know that it is water/liquid. That would help us to trouble shoot for you. I don't know if it is humid where you are now - if so it could be sweat? If it is oil, then there could be some issues with one of the oils in your recipe.

 

[Susie]

Please post the recipe in weights. It makes trouble shooting so much easier.

Also, have you verified your scale recently? They can get off from old batteries and such.

 

[GemstonePony]

@KiwiMoose is correct, I'm wondering if the substance dissolves in water. It's most likely water or oil and not glycerin, and knowing whether it's water or oil would be helpful in starting to pinpoint why it's there and if that's a problem. You could probably use a drop of juice so it has a contrast color for ease of visibility.
@Susie I've made a 50% SF soap (for science!) with no oil oozing. Since the OP is aiming for 5% SF, I feel measuring is an unlikely culprit.

If the liquid is water, I would want to know about additives and curing conditions, since since added humectants and high humidity could cause the soap to pull water out of the air. Otherwise, I would advise wiping off a section of soap and doing a careful zap test. If the soap zaps, it's lye-heavy, either from a measuring error or because you encountered false trace and the soap never emulsified.

If the liquid is oil, the soap may have overheated and separated, the FO may be leaking out, or the FO may have caused the soap to separate... And I think there are more possible culprits, but I can't think of them off the top of my head.

 

[Sas]

What she is asking is - if you take the 'wet' part of your soap and drop it in water, is it water-soluble? If not, then we can determine that it is oil. If it mixes with water we know that it is water/liquid. That would help us to trouble shoot for you. I don't know if it is humid where you are now - if so it could be sweat? If it is oil, then there could be some issues with one of the oils in your recipe.

@KiwiMoose Thank you so much for your respond and clarification. I live in Iowa so it could be humid but I did gel after soap by wrapping the mold with towel, do you think that could cause the issue? I checked it every now and then but on top of the soap looks normal to me.

 

[Sas]

@KiwiMoose is correct, I'm wondering if the substance dissolves in water. It's most likely water or oil and not glycerin, and knowing whether it's water or oil would be helpful in starting to pinpoint why it's there and if that's a problem. You could probably use a drop of juice so it has a contrast color for ease of visibility.
@Susie I've made a 50% SF soap (for science!) with no oil oozing. Since the OP is aiming for 5% SF, I feel measuring is an unlikely culprit.

If the liquid is water, I would want to know about additives and curing conditions, since since added humectants and high humidity could cause the soap to pull water out of the air. Otherwise, I would advise wiping off a section of soap and doing a careful zap test. If the soap zaps, it's lye-heavy, either from a measuring error or because you encountered false trace and the soap never emulsified.

If the liquid is oil, the soap may have overheated and separated, the FO may be leaking out, or the FO may have caused the soap to separate... And I think there are more possible culprits, but I can't think of them off the top of my head.

@GemstonePony Thank you so much for the clarification. So this is what the soap look like after soaking in water, it seems to be disappear? Its that mean its water? Sorry I dont have any juice in my house right now but I will get some and test it. One thing I forgot to mention is that I did force it to gel by wrapping the mold with towel after soap. Do you think that could have cause this? Im soaping from my kitchen, please advice where I should store/cure my soap.

Thanks again for your help, much appreciate.
Sas

 

[Sas]

Please post the recipe in weights. It makes trouble shooting so much easier.

Also, have you verified your scale recently? They can get off from old batteries and such.

@Susie thank you so much for your input, I will edit my soap recipe to weight in the original post and remember to do that from now on. And do you have any recommendation for scale? I got this from Amazon and its seem to be working ok but do you think this is good enough for soap making?

Thanks again for your input, much appreciate,
Sas

 

[GemstonePony]

Unfortunately, submerging the bar in water was not the way to figure out what the substance was, since the soap itself would have emulsified any oil. You needed to use a spatula to collect the liquid off of the soap, then put an equal amount of water with it to see if they mixed.
Sometimes if soap gets too warm a little oil will seep out of the soap.
I would do a zap test on the rinsed soap: INSTRUCTIONS HERE

 

[Loran]

I’m pretty new to this, but what I’ve noticed is the water:lye ratio seems off. The first recipe has 7.2 water to 2.77 lye. With 2.77 lye shouldn’t the water be no more then double that? So 5.54 oz of water instead of 7.2?

 

[Sas]

Unfortunately, submerging the bar in water was not the way to figure out what the substance was, since the soap itself would have emulsified any oil. You needed to use a spatula to collect the liquid off of the soap, then put an equal amount of water with it to see if they mixed.
Sometimes if soap gets too warm a little oil will seep out of the soap.
I would do a zap test on the rinsed soap: INSTRUCTIONS HERE

@GemstonePony I just did the test and no zest or statistic feeling. So at least that is one good sign. But in term of the substance/oozing, its more of the appearance/texture of the soap. Its bumpy looking and some small white little particle, and bubble. There is no excess oil or water on the surface. Sorry for the confusion, I didn't realize when I use word oozing its meant wet substance on the surface.

 

[Sas]

I’m pretty new to this, but what I’ve noticed is the water:lye ratio seems off. The first recipe has 7.2 water to 2.77 lye. With 2.77 lye shouldn’t the water be no more then double that? So 5.54 oz of water instead of 7.2?

@Loran Thats a good point, I didnt even think of that until now. Thank you

 

[TheGecko]

It is glycerin rivers or glycerin oozing? Please help me identify what is the problem here. Any trick or tip are very appreciate. I'm trying to make a natural soap and palm free.

From what I learn 5-7% is a good range for superfat but what is a good range for water percent of oil weight? I'm using soapcal for the calculation and its ask for it.

I've never heard of glycerin oozing from soap. And glycerin rivers look like:

or like this:

What could potentially be happening is 1) Your soap has overheated and you have some oil separation; this often happens when you have a high water content. Suggest going with a 33% to 35% Lye Concentration. Let the soap rest for a week and if it is oil, it will oftentimes be reabsorbed. 2) It could be your FO leaking because it wasn't incorporated well enough, again, let it rest for a week. 3) It could be that the high conditioning levels of your soap is attracting water. I had some salt soap do that...I just cured it on paper towels and would change them out when they got too wet.

 

[GemstonePony]

@GemstonePony I just did the test and no zest or statistic feeling. So at least that is one good sign. But in term of the substance/oozing, its more of the appearance/texture of the soap. Its bumpy looking and some small white little particle, and bubble. There is no excess oil or water on the surface. Sorry for the confusion, I didn't realize when I use word oozing its meant wet substance on the surface.

Oh, that clears that up. It looks like there are Stearic spots from not getting your hard butters melted and mixed in thoroughly, which are primarily a cosmetic issue. Also, 36% water as a percent of oil is roughly 2.5:1 water: lye. The more water has to evaporate out, the more it's going to distort the soap and make any inconsistency in the batter more noticeable. I would recommend switching to a 2:1 water: lye ratio, aka 33% lye concentration, or approximately 28% liquid to oils.
ETA: lowering the liquid amount may make your recipe trace a bit faster.

 

[Sas]

I've never heard of glycerin oozing from soap. And glycerin rivers look like:

View attachment 50748

or like this:

View attachment 50749

What could potentially be happening is 1) Your soap has overheated and you have some oil separation; this often happens when you have a high water content. Suggest going with a 33% to 35% Lye Concentration. Let the soap rest for a week and if it is oil, it will oftentimes be reabsorbed. 2) It could be your FO leaking because it wasn't incorporated well enough, again, let it rest for a week. 3) It could be that the high conditioning levels of your soap is attracting water. I had some salt soap do that...I just cured it on paper towels and would change them out when they got too wet.

@TheGecko Thank you so much for the information and suggestions. My soap definitely look a lot like the first picture you provided. I will try to soap at lower temperature and try 33% Lye concentration next time! Thanks again, much appreciate.

Sas

 

[Sas]

Oh, that clears that up. It looks like there are Stearic spots from not getting your hard butters melted and mixed in thoroughly, which are primarily a cosmetic issue. Also, 36% water as a percent of oil is roughly 2.5:1 water: lye. The more water has to evaporate out, the more it's going to distort the soap and make any inconsistency in the batter more noticeable. I would recommend switching to a 2:1 water: lye ratio, aka 33% lye concentration, or approximately 28% liquid to oils.
ETA: lowering the liquid amount may make your recipe trace a bit faster.

@GemstonePony my bad I have a hard time explaining but thank you so much for your patient I really appreciate your help. I will definitely try 33% lye concentration next time.

 

[TheGecko]

@TheGecko Thank you so much for the information and suggestions. My soap definitely look a lot like the first picture you provided. I will try to soap at lower temperature and try 33% Lye concentration next time! Thanks again, much appreciate.

It's not the temperature that you soap at that causes GR, but the temperature during saponification. Your soap is getting too hot and it's most likely due to the high water content.

Next time...try at a batch at 33% Lye Concentration covered and one uncovered.

 

[Sas]

It's not the temperature that you soap at that causes GR, but the temperature during saponification. Your soap is getting too hot and it's most likely due to the high water content.

Next time...try at a batch at 33% Lye Concentration covered and one uncovered.

@TheGecko ahh got it, thank you for the clarification! And will do, hopefully it turn out better next batch, I will keep you guys update