trace issue

[Chen Min01]

Hi there,

I have been making about a dozen batches of soap so far. I used to have no problem to get perfect soap, but recently I have issues with trace.
I tried a new formula that I thought should work fine. However, after reaching trace, I added lavender and tea tree essential oil (a total of less than 10ml), followed by 1/2 tablespoon of used coffee ground. After mixing them, the batter became flocculent other than maintaining the trace, and I noticed a layer of oil on top. I then used the blender again, the trace didn't look stable. To help the process, I placed them to the oven at low temperature (at about 46°C). After blending again, the trace was getting better. However, as soon as I stopped mixing, the trace started to fade. I continued blending for another 2-3 minutes and poured the mixture into the mold when I saw the trace (like I used to do). Strangely, the soap usually thickens after reaching trace, but it didn't happen to this batch. After about 30 minutes, I saw a layer of oil on top. After 24 hours, the soap still remains a bit fluid. I don't know what went wrong g, but would be really appreciate any input.

Here is my formula:
Olive oil: 306g
Coconut oil: 120g
Tallow beef: 87g
Castor oil: 47g
Sweet almond oil: 40g
Total oils: 600g

KOH: 129
water: 228

Thanks so much in advance.

 

[lsg]

If you are trying to make CP bar soap, then you need sodium hydroxide (NaOH), not potassium hydroxide.

 

[DeeAnna]

Do you realize you made a liquid soap (KOH) recipe, not a bar soap (NaOH) recipe?

"...After mixing them, the batter became flocculent other than maintaining the trace, and I noticed a layer of oil on top..."

The batter was ~not~ at trace if there was an oil layer floating on top. Trace means the water- and oil-based layers are chemically emulsified. If they're properly emulsified, they won't separate at all.

KOH soap does not behave the same as NaOH soap. KOH soap won't typically reach "trace" until it becomes quite thick, so it's not normally fluid and pourable enough to pour into a mold.

Since most people are going to dilute the thick paste into a pourable liquid soap, they often don't bother with a mold -- they just leave the paste in the soap pot or other short-term storage container until it's time to dilute the paste.

Some people decide to cut KOH soap paste into bars and use it like that, which is certainly an option. In that case, you could spoon the paste into a mold and then cut the paste into bars when cool. It will hold its shape well enough if you use it gently, but it will never get physically hard like NaOH bar soap. It also won't be nearly as long-lived as the same recipe except made with NaOH.

The recipe is using too much superfat for a KOH soap. The KOH weight at 90% KOH purity should be between 131 grams if you want 3% superfat to 134 grams at 1% superfat.

Most KOH soap recipes use a 3:1 water:lye ratio (25% lye concentration) to make the paste easier to stir and dilute.

To finish this batch, I'd pour everything back into a container that can be heated on the stove. Heat the contents over medium heat to about 180F / 80C. Reduce heat to maintain this temperature. Cook the batter, stirring often, until it thickens into a paste. The paste will typically look like translucent petroleum jelly (Vaseline in the US) or opaque mashed potatoes, depending on water content. Then spoon the paste into a mold or let it cool in the soap pot, depending on how you intend to use the soap in the future.

 

[Chen Min01]

If you are trying to make CP bar soap, then you need sodium hydroxide (NaOH), not potassium hydroxide.

That's good to know. Thank you so much!!! I used lye in my previous soap-making without any issues. That's why I failed with KOH. Much appreciated!

Do you realize you made a liquid soap (KOH) recipe, not a bar soap (NaOH) recipe?

"...After mixing them, the batter became flocculent other than maintaining the trace, and I noticed a layer of oil on top..."

The batter was ~not~ at trace if there was an oil layer floating on top. Trace means the water- and oil-based layers are chemically emulsified. If they're properly emulsified, they won't separate at all.

KOH soap does not behave the same as NaOH soap. KOH soap won't typically reach "trace" until it becomes quite thick, so it's not normally fluid and pourable enough to pour into a mold.

Since most people are going to dilute the thick paste into a pourable liquid soap, they often don't bother with a mold -- they just leave the paste in the soap pot or other short-term storage container until it's time to dilute the paste.

Some people decide to cut KOH soap paste into bars and use it like that, which is certainly an option. In that case, you could spoon the paste into a mold and then cut the paste into bars when cool. It will hold its shape well enough, but it will never get hard like NaOH bar soap. It also won't be nearly as long-lived as the same recipe except made with NaOH.

The recipe is using too much superfat for a KOH soap. The KOH weight at 90% KOH purity should be between 131 grams if you want 3% superfat to 134 grams at 1% superfat.

Most KOH soap recipes use a 3:1 water:lye ratio (25% lye concentration) to make the paste easier to stir and dilute.

To finish this batch, I'd pour everything back into a container that can be heated on the stove. Heat the contents over medium heat to about 180F / 80C. Reduce heat to maintain this temperature. Cook the batter, stirring often, until it thickens into a paste. The paste will typically look like translucent petroleum jelly (Vaseline in the US) or opaque mashed potatoes, depending on water content. Then spoon the paste into a mold or let it cool in the soap pot, depending on how you intend to use the soap in the future.

Thank you DeeAnna for the detailed information. That's really helpful. Can I still use these soap then? Perhaps reheat them until they are fully saponified?

 

[DeeAnna]

You need to heat the paste and finish the saponification as I explained earlier.

But after that, yes, the soap should be safe to use.

The word "lye" is a generic word to mean any alkali that can be used to make soap. Many soap makers think "lye" only means NaOH but that's not true. Lye" can mean NaOH, KOH, sodium carbonate, and other alkali chemicals.

It's best to use the specific chemical name, rather than the word "lye", when troubleshooting to reduce the chance of confusion.