Toxicity symbols

[Blufuz]

Hi everyone! I’ve recently been agonizing over the hazard triangles that come with the information sheets of essential oils; the ones that specify if it’s bad for wildlife, bad for human consumption, etc. I was really surprised to see that tea tree oil for example has a lot of those, even though it’s considered beneficial and often recommended for acne.

I was hoping to hear all of your experience with the “toxicity” of essential oils. Do you take care which kinds of soap you use them in? Or is the dilution in soap sufficient (when following the guidelines) that it doesn’t matter?

Or are they manufacture-specific?

 

[DeeAnna]

Are you talking about the NFPA warning diamond or the EU equivalent? How to Read an NFPA Fire Diamond - Building Maps

If so, the information contained in the warning diamond is used by fire fighters and other emergency response personnel to respond to spills, fires, and other disasters that involve signficant amounts of that particular chemical in pure form.

An example would be a truck carrying tea tree oil is in an accident and the containers of tea tree oil break open and are involved in a fire at the accident or are draining into a lake or river. If you were an emergency response person, you would look at the warning diamond to get a quick idea of the risks.

You cannot, CANNOT apply the information in a warning diamond to any product that contains this chemical, such as soap, lotion, etc. The warnings apply only to the pure chemical. When used properly per IFRA or manufacturer's recommendations, the chemical will be safe for use by humans and in the environment.

So think about this in a larger sense -- If it seems like you should apply the information in a warning diamond to any product that contains that chemical, then why do you use soap? Soap contains sodium hydroxide. Bagels are often treated with a solution of sodium hydroxide and water. Should we eat bagels?

Pure sodium hydroxide has the NFPA warning diamond shown below. The "3" in the blue diamond means NaOH is extremely dangerous to health. The "0" in the red diamond means NaOH is not a fire hazard. The "1" in the yellow diamond means NaOH is chemically unstable if heated.

Should these warnings apply to soap (or any other product) that happens to be made with sodium hydroxide? Or just to the sodium hydroxide itself? Same goes for products with tea tree oil.

 

[Blufuz]

No, I don’t think that’s it. These symbols:

So for example, if an essential oil has the dead fish symbol, should I avoid using that EO for a soap meant for people camping in the wild, or are the quantities in the final soap inconsequential?

 

[Zany_in_CO]

https://www.highspeedtraining.co.uk/hub/coshh-symbols-meanings/

 

[AliOop]

are the quantities in the final soap inconsequential?

I would say yes to that. As they say, the dose is the poison.

Not everyone would agree with me about that when it comes to wildlife toxicity. As for potential human toxicity, that's what EOCalc, IFRA, and Tisserand are for - they tell you what amount IS safe for humans to use.

 

[NewlyCreative]

No, I don’t think that’s it. These symbols:
View attachment 73210

So for example, if an essential oil has the dead fish symbol, should I avoid using that EO for a soap meant for people camping in the wild, or are the quantities in the final soap inconsequential?

Don’t drink it, don’t feed it to your fish, and looks like you wouldn’t want to pour it into your eye.
Honestly that sounds about how I’d expect for tea tree oil. People use it to kill toe fungus and that is hard to kill!
Think of it this way - you wouldn’t want to drink lye either or get it anywhere near your eye, right? But you still use it to make soap!
For some of the environmental warnings - think of salt. Salting the earth is bad! But we use salt to preserve our food.
Raw materials for many consumer products are noxious!
Every essential oil has a maximum use. You can look that up and follow the guidelines. Stay within the safe use guideline and no need to worry about it.

 

[Blufuz]

I get that about the dose, I’m just wondering if it makes sense to be judicious about which fragrances we include for certain things, and then how we market it to others.
I know it’s typical to give unscented soap to people going through chemo for example, so maybe in the same vain it would be good to have a little list of essential oils that are not irritating to the skin that are reserved for “sensitive skin type” soaps, or again the ones without the dead fish for camping soaps. Then there’s a lot of these super-health conscious people (new in-law to the family for me), and I imagine they would appreciate only using “non toxic” ingredients (yes, lye is bad, but if the soap is done right, there shouldn’t be any left in the soap!)

I imagine EOCalc is mostly concerned about human skin, but maybe not the other factors? And given that people are differently sensitive, maybe this is one of the things they are sensitive to, so we don’t necessarily have to give them plain soap, just the right EOs?

 

[artemis]

maybe in the same vain it would be good to have a little list of essential oils that are not irritating to the skin that are reserved for “sensitive skin type” soaps

Not everyone will be sensitive to the same EOs. And, I'm not sure you can say that they are for sensitive skin. That sounds like it might be pushing the line of a medical or cosmetic claim. I would avoid saying an EO blend is safe for a cancer patient or an eczema patient or whatever.

I imagine EOCalc is mostly concerned about human skin, but maybe not the other factors? And given that people are differently sensitive, maybe this is one of the things they are sensitive to, so we don’t necessarily have to give them plain soap, just the right EOs?

That is what an ingredients list is for. If my skin is sensitive to an EO and I see it on an ingredients list, I won't buy that soap.

But, I think that these warnings still only make sense in much larger amounts. The small amount that gets washed off at a campsite and diluted by water isn't really an issue.

As far as environmental concerns, most people assume EOs are better for the environment and for skin, health, etc. You would have to have more than a list. You would need a whole booklet explaining which ones have warnings and what all the warnings mean. Then, they will leave your booth and go over to the one that claims their EOs are purer and safer.

For me, these warnings are just a good reminder that EOs are chemicals, too, and that you have to be mindful of how you handle them, just like any ingredient.

 

[DeeAnna]

No, I don’t think that’s it. These symbols:
View attachment 73210

So for example, if an essential oil has the dead fish symbol, should I avoid using that EO for a soap meant for people camping in the wild, or are the quantities in the final soap inconsequential?

Yes, the notation on the bottle IS similar to the information in the NFPA warning diamond I wrote about. I stand behind the information I gave in my earlier post.

The symbols in your photo explain the hazards of the stuff contained in that bottle (I'm assuming it's an EO). The symbols do not tell you anything about the hazards of a product, such as a soap or lotion, that includes the EO as part of the product.

The dead fish symbol, for example, relates to what can happen if the pure EO is put into a river or lake.

It does not tell you anything about the hazard to fish from putting a soap that contains the EO into a river or lake. The soap is not the same thing as the EO.

The soap could be labeled with its own warning symbols, but the symbols will relate to the hazards of the entire soap as a whole.

As I said before, soap contains sodium hydroxide, but the soap itself doesn't have the same hazard as sodium hydroxide. Same goes for any product that contains that EO -- the product doesn't have the same hazards as the EO in the bottle.

 

[Zany_in_CO]

FWIW I use comfrey leaves and/or calendula petals herbal infusions in oil for my dry mature sensitive skin. Off hand I can't think of an EO that would do the same. Lavender? Perhaps. It certainly has the ability to soothe and heal burns and calm the itchies at 5% in a carrier oil.

ETA: PLANT THERAPY - Food for thought. Check out the "Benefits" drop down menu located on the left side for EOs recommended for various issues.
https://www.planttherapy.com/collec...edium=Affiliate&utm_source=Core Wellness, LLC

 

[TheGecko]

So for example, if an essential oil has the dead fish symbol, should I avoid using that EO for a soap meant for people camping in the wild, or are the quantities in the final soap inconsequential?

If you were to pour that entire bottle in your 20gal fish tank, it would most likely kill all the fish. If you were to pour that same bottle into Lake Geneva, nothing would happen. Along the same line...take Tea Tree Oil. If you were to apply the oil directly to the skin, it would cause irritation, but if properly diluted in a carrier oil/butter, it has many health benefits. This is why there are 'safe usage rates' for various EOs and FOs in various products. And it should be noted that even if the EO/FO has a higher usage rate, doesn't mean that you should use it at that rate.

 

[Savage Daughter]

If you were to pour that entire bottle in your 20gal fish tank, it would most likely kill all the fish. If you were to pour that same bottle into Lake Geneva, nothing would happen. Along the same line...take Tea Tree Oil. If you were to apply the oil directly to the skin, it would cause irritation, but if properly diluted in a carrier oil/butter, it has many health benefits. This is why there are 'safe usage rates' for various EOs and FOs in various products. And it should be noted that even if the EO/FO has a higher usage rate, doesn't mean that you should use it at that rate.

I apply a lot of essential oils directly to my skin, always have, and other than things like wintergreen, chilli seed, cinnamon, clove, I have never had any type of reaction or irritation.

Tea tree especially is awesome directly on the skin, as is lavender, sage, rosemary....quite a few essential oils. They have their uses when used straight up, so to speak, especially with things like chronic pain, arthritis, acne, eczema, skin fungus and a whole lot more.

When I first introduced my grandmother to essential oils, she began using a combination of rosemary & lavender directly on her joints, full strength. This was when she was in her 80s. Likewise pure turpentine spirits, which is some awesome stuff Still trying to find a supplier closer to me to keep a regular supply of that substance as it is very healing.

 

[Blufuz]

I apply a lot of essential oils directly to my skin, always have, and other than things like wintergreen, chilli seed, cinnamon, clove, I have never had any type of reaction or irritation.

Tea tree especially is awesome directly on the skin, as is lavender, sage, rosemary....quite a few essential oils. They have their uses when used straight up, so to speak, especially with things like chronic pain, arthritis, acne, eczema, skin fungus and a whole lot more.

When I first introduced my grandmother to essential oils, she began using a combination of rosemary & lavender directly on her joints, full strength. This was when she was in her 80s. Likewise pure turpentine spirits, which is some awesome stuff Still trying to find a supplier closer to me to keep a regular supply of that substance as it is very healing.

Do you notice a difference between manufacturers, or take care on where it’s from? Or are they all similar in your experience?

 

[paradisi]

Your semi regular reminder that anecdotes are not data and that applies especially well to claims of healing and claims against common sense and fact.
No, essential oils are not medicines and yes, applying them undiluted to the skin can cause allergic contact dermatitis and or burns & blisters.

National Institute for Health database and Botanical Dermatology Database are full of links to cases of such dermatitis reactions.

Might you get away with it? Sure. Should one be advising others to try it? No.

 

[TheGecko]

I apply a lot of essential oils directly to my skin, always have, and other than things like wintergreen, chilli seed, cinnamon, clove, I have never had any type of reaction or irritation.

Tea tree especially is awesome directly on the skin, as is lavender, sage, rosemary....quite a few essential oils. They have their uses when used straight up, so to speak, especially with things like chronic pain, arthritis, acne, eczema, skin fungus and a whole lot more.

When I first introduced my grandmother to essential oils, she began using a combination of rosemary & lavender directly on her joints, full strength. This was when she was in her 80s. Likewise pure turpentine spirits, which is some awesome stuff Still trying to find a supplier closer to me to keep a regular supply of that substance as it is very healing.

I'm with @paradisi, but I'll be a little more blunt...you're dangerous.

 

[Zany_in_CO]

Tea tree especially is awesome directly on the skin, as is lavender, sage, rosemary....quite a few essential oils. They have their uses when used straight up, so to speak, especially with things like chronic pain, arthritis, acne, eczema, skin fungus and a whole lot more.

While that may be true, it doesn't make sense to me to use expensive EOs "straight up". It is not only wasteful overkill but costly when a 5% dilution in a carrier oil (Jojoba, FCO, etc.) works as well or even better, IMO and IME (in my opinion and in my experience).

For example, I keep a brown glass dropper bottle of 5% lavender in jojoba handy for burns, lye and other stuff. Just a drop or two soothes the pain immediately and the burn heals with zero scarring.

Over-dosing with essential oils over time can lead to their becoming no longer effective or you become allergic to them and that's the end of that. Easy does it, my friend.

 

[Savage Daughter]

Do you notice a difference between manufacturers, or take care on where it’s from? Or are they all similar in your experience?

In terms of?

There are always differences in scent, in depth etc depending on the year, where the plant was harvested, so many factors. I have bottles of vetiver, ylang-ylang, frankincense, patchouli, you name it, which all differ from each other in various ways.

if I receive an essential oil which I am not happy with in regards to the depth or quality of scent, I set it aside & allow it to age for several months. I order essential oils in 500ml & 1 litre sizes, and long before I run out of my previous bottles, so I have time to do this. 9 times out of ten, this improves the scent overall.

 

[Savage Daughter]

While that may be true, it doesn't make sense to me to use expensive EOs "straight up". It is not only wasteful overkill but costly when a 5% dilution in a carrier oil (Jojoba, FCO, etc.) works as well or even better, IMO and IME (in my opinion and in my experience).

For me, it doesn't end up being wasteful. I don't need to use an extra bottle (packaging) or any of my carrier oils in many cases (more money spent). Citrus I don't use straight up, or others I mentioned, as my skin doesn't like that. I simply use common sense. The amount of the oils I am personally using for myself also doesn't amount to that much, even over the period of a year or two, despite the fact that this is all I use exclusively (in terms of essential oils vs fragrance oils, which I don't use at all).

For example, I keep a brown glass dropper bottle of 5% lavender in jojoba handy for burns, lye and other stuff. Just a drop or two soothes the pain immediately and the burn heals with zero scarring.

Over-dosing with essential oils over time can lead to their becoming no longer effective or you become allergic to them and that's the end of that. Easy does it, my friend.

I have never experienced this over my lifetime, or seen it happen, despite the fact that I have heard many people talk about this, so I continue doing what works for me, in all cases. As I said, my grandmother used them straight up for many years, at quite an elderly age, and had zero problems as well.

I am far more concerned about the chemicals made from petroleum by-products which are used in so many bath & body care products & which overload our bodies, disrupting hormones, causing massive 'unexplained' weight gain in people, liver problems, and all sorts of other toxic overloads which occur over time. This is something I have definitely observed, but not many people wish to understand this / look at this / research this topic as it becomes uncomfortable for them in many ways, especially when they are using these substances in their product lines. Hear no evil / see no evil I continue doing whatI have observed works, what I have experienced works, I continue to observe, and if I notice a change (often they can be very subtle), I take note & look into things further, making changes as need be as I go.