To sell, or not to sell...

[cmzaha]

Before I started selling, I sat down with a lawyer to determine if spending the extra money to create a LLC would be preferable to a DBA.
I also contracted an accounting firm to do both my business taxes and our personal taxes and asked their advice as well.
They both gave me the same advice to go with a DBA for these reasons:
1) There was no real benefit to my creating a corporation since I didn't plan to establish lines of credit with vendors to purchase my supplies. In other words - I wouldn't be in the position of having outstanding debts if my business failed and the vendors sued for the debt.
2) If my LLC was sued for damages, I as the sole soapmaker/product creator would almost certainly be named personally in the lawsuit as well. Which means that our personal assets are now fair game.
And I just want to be clear on this since people have mentioned it - you don't have to have 'intent' to sell a dangerous/shady product to be sued. Anyone can sue you for the silliest of reasons, but they do have to prove that you were negligent or had 'intent' in order to win the lawsuit. Even if you win the lawsuit, you may be left with court/attorney fees unless you counter sue for these.
This is one scenario that the lawyer and I discussed:
A customer purchases a bar of soap/wax tart/etc. that smells good enough to eat and looks like food - then their child actually eats some of it. They take their child to the ER and then sue you for the bill and whatever else they can think up (mental distress/time off from work/etc) even though your product is clearly labeled as soap or whatever. Their main claim/basis for the lawsuit is that you didn't specifically say that this item was non-edible.
Of course this is completely outrageous and they would most likely never win such a case, but as the lawyer said: "As a LLC, you would have to defend both your corporation for allowing the product to be sold, and yourself personally as the maker of product in question."
And of course we have business insurance for nonsense like this, but the lawyer's advice was that if you ever get hit with frivolous lawsuit as a small business owner; file a countersuit to pay for your damages rather than file a claim with your insurance.

A lot of this is my point. As for a child eating something they thought was food. Yep, had that happen with my daughters marshmallow soaps. The mom was driving opened up her "Cosmetic" sample box and handed the marshmallow soap back to her 3 yr old son to eat. He did and hurled up all over the back seat. She threatened to sue us, but the package was clearly labeled Soap do not eat. Actually it was labeled Soap on all sides of the label for just this reason. Fortunately we did not get sued.

Many of the pointers that Cerelife mentions was my point that a corporation does not protect from everything. We have had a C- corp and a S-Corp and I can say I will Never have another Corporation. The S-Corp did not protect us from everything especially a credit card my partners ran up since it was personally guaranteed. In the ending my credit is trashed. The C-Corp did not protect our partner form mortgaging everything he had, including loans on retirement funds just to get rid of us... So he was not greatly protected

 

[melinda48]

A lot of this is my point. As for a child eating something they thought was food. Yep, had that happen with my daughters marshmallow soaps. The mom was driving opened up her "Cosmetic" sample box and handed the marshmallow soap back to her 3 yr old son to eat. He did and hurled up all over the back seat. She threatened to sue us, but the package was clearly labeled Soap do not eat. Actually it was labeled Soap on all sides of the label for just this reason. Fortunately we did not get sued.

Many of the pointers that Cerelife mentions was my point that a corporation does not protect from everything. We have had a C- corp and a S-Corp and I can say I will Never have another Corporation. The S-Corp did not protect us from everything especially a credit card my partners ran up since it was personally guaranteed. In the ending my credit is trashed. The C-Corp did not protect our partner form mortgaging everything he had, including loans on retirement funds just to get rid of us... So he was not greatly protected[/QUOTE

A lot of this is my point. As for a child eating something they thought was food. Yep, had that happen with my daughters marshmallow soaps. The mom was driving opened up her "Cosmetic" sample box and handed the marshmallow soap back to her 3 yr old son to eat. He did and hurled up all over the back seat. She threatened to sue us, but the package was clearly labeled Soap do not eat. Actually it was labeled Soap on all sides of the label for just this reason. Fortunately we did not get sued.

Many of the pointers that Cerelife mentions was my point that a corporation does not protect from everything. We have had a C- corp and a S-Corp and I can say I will Never have another Corporation. The S-Corp did not protect us from everything especially a credit card my partners ran up since it was personally guaranteed. In the ending my credit is trashed. The C-Corp did not protect our partner form mortgaging everything he had, including loans on retirement funds just to get rid of us... So he was not greatly protected

A LLC is not, I repeat, not, a corporation. LLC stands for limited liability company and provides some of the same protections for your personal funds as a corporation does. My husband and I have owned several businesses and a,ways choose to register as an LLC. You do not need an attorney to register a LLC. An LLC protects your personal assets which is the reason we choose to go this route. Also, even if you choose an LLC, you still need to register a DBA (Doing Business As). For instance out LLC is called MC Lockwood Group but our business has a DBA of Heartland Paddler and does business as Heartland Paddler under our limited liability company. An LLC is not a corporation.

 

[Lin19687]

I think the main point is that you will never be completely safe from being taken to court. Even if they do not win, you will lose money, your personal money as that is what you pay your self with from the earning of the Biz.

Gee I hope that made sense, it was so much better in my head

 

[Dahila]

Rune , Canadian can sell up 30 thousand before they need to send taxes to government, I mean Canadian citizens , it is different in Europe cause you have EU regulations

 

[earlene]

Well, Rune, I think I want to move to Norway! I don't think that will fly with my husband, but it sure sounds tempting. But then again, since I don't want to start a business, I guess it doesn't matter quite as much. Besides I'd not get to see my grands as often.

But I do love the learn about the differences of how businesses are regulated and the other factors that affect soapmakers all around the world, so thank you for posting all of you.

 

[Rune]

Norway is nice, but cold (at least where I live), long winters and short summers. But summers can be hot, hotter than many places in the US, I found out one day I googled such things. But, it is not a good country for soapmakers. Maybe one of the worst. Everything is expensive, and we have next to nothing in grocery stores, don't have any soapmaking supply stores and ordering from abroad becomes expensive with customs and extra VAT. So this country is not at all good for soapmakers, no, or anyone making things from ingredients that can not be found here.

Sweden is better. They are in the EU, so you can order whatever you want and how much you want from other EU countries, and only have to worry about shipping costs. But I think the swedes perhaps will have to send their formulas to some government authority for approval before selling. I don't know, but since they are in the EU, it is very likely. They have to do so in the UK.

Rice bran oil, that is an example of something I can't find anywhere here. Fragrance oils the same. I don't think we have micas either. Since we are only 5 million people over a large area, the market is very small for both selling things and buying what you need.

We have too many grocery stores. Which means that every single of them are too small and have too little goods, plus that they all have more or less exactly the same. I can be a challenge finding even the most basic of things at times. It is much better in bigger cities, like Oslo (which you would not call a city in the US, but a town).

I want to travel to the US one day. Not to New York or Los Angeles, but I dream of the more rural areas. Like somewhere in the Tornado Alley. A tornado holiday with tornado chasers, that would be a dream come true! Maybe too scary

 

[cmzaha]

While an LLC is not a true Corp, many think of it as one and it still is not a 100% protection for personal. LLC's (Limited Liability Company) are loosely structured as Corporations.

 

[earlene]

Well, now Rune, you would get along well with my son. He chased hurricanes. Scared the living bejesus out of me, that one did! Then one year, my husband and I were in New Orleans during hurricane season and sent him a video of me and my pony-tail standing straight out behind my head from the hurricane's winds. He was furious that I stayed for that. Turn about's fair play, right?

You make some good points about access to supplies. I had forgotten you encounter that all the time, as do some of our other members around the world. Too bad there doesn't seem to be a place where a soaper can have the best of all worlds! (unlimited access to reasonably priced supplies, low overhead, reasonably easily compliable legal requirements, fabulous opportunities for business, etc.) Maybe there is, but I haven't noticed it yet.

 

[xuledywo]

My experience is to think outside of the box
Mainstream markets and online and such are completely crowded and the competition is to much.
Start with your local florist - sell them novelty soaps to include in gift hampers
Start with your local Liquor store - sell them beer soap as a novelty
Sart with your local butcher - sell them lard soap
If there is a local corporate gift place - approach them to include your soap in their gift bags
Visit your local hotels or b&b's or such and sell to them
If you have a racetrack - sell them mechanics soap (aka gardeners soap)
got to your local nursery and sell them soap on a rope gardeners soap that people can hang off their taps

Once you get money for your goods and repeat customers or word of mouth then you will fly.
People buy from people.

And dont take no for an answer

There are so many other avenues to sell soap.


I have an excel spreadsheet with all the oil prices and then i dump in the quantities. Marke up is between 200 - 300% which covers packaging distribution routes for sale, labelling, labour, petrol and other incidentals.

My dilemma is selling my art. In a twisted act of fate, I’ve been laid off again. While searching for a job I’m trying to make a bit of income to continue buying art supplies and pay some things. I have a website, I have an Etsy shop and I have a Redbubble page. However, I’ve sold close to nothing for the last year or so including up until now and I’m just at a loss. I have anxiety about if my pages look okay, if photos of my art look okay, and now I’m having doubts about my art other than the normal being-my-own-worst-critic feeling. I’d love to approach galleries as well. I’ve scoured this forum and looked at the threads and took good info away from them but I’m looking for feedback on how my pages look. I just feel as though I’m missing the mark somewhere and I’m hoping for some advice from artists who have been where I’m at now. I have no artist friends. I have no mentors. WetCanvas is where I always turn for art related questions so I thought I’d give it a try now. There are links to my Instagram and website in my signature and from there you can get to my Redbubble and Etsy which I’m not sure it’s allowed for me to post those links here. I’m actually even hoping I can post about feedback for these things. If this entire post is breaking any rules I’ll gladly remove it. I just don’t know where else to turn.

 

[artemis]

There are links to my Instagram and website in my signature and from there you can get to my Redbubble and Etsy which I’m not sure it’s allowed for me to post those links here.or these things.

Maybe I'm not understanding where you mean, but I don't see any links or even a signature?

 

[Relle]

My dilemma is selling my art. In a twisted act of fate, I’ve been laid off again. While searching for a job I’m trying to make a bit of income to continue buying art supplies and pay some things. I have a website, I have an Etsy shop and I have a Redbubble page. However, I’ve sold close to nothing for the last year or so including up until now and I’m just at a loss. I have anxiety about if my pages look okay, if photos of my art look okay, and now I’m having doubts about my art other than the normal being-my-own-worst-critic feeling. I’d love to approach galleries as well. I’ve scoured this forum and looked at the threads and took good info away from them but I’m looking for feedback on how my pages look. I just feel as though I’m missing the mark somewhere and I’m hoping for some advice from artists who have been where I’m at now. I have no artist friends. I have no mentors. WetCanvas is where I always turn for art related questions so I thought I’d give it a try now. There are links to my Instagram and website in my signature and from there you can get to my Redbubble and Etsy which I’m not sure it’s allowed for me to post those links here. I’m actually even hoping I can post about feedback for these things. If this entire post is breaking any rules I’ll gladly remove it. I just don’t know where else to turn.

You can't post links to etsy, your website etc. as that as classed as advertising.