To reply or not to reply? That is the question

[The Efficacious Gentleman]

After destroying Shakespeare, I just want to ask something/make a general point -

When I see some posts, I just want to grab the person and shake them while screaming "What are you thinking?!?!?!?!"

I know a lot of you will know what I mean - posts about wanting to sell soap while having literally no idea about soap making. Also ones where people found the forum to be able to ask why something went wrong, but didn't think to spend a few moments BEFORE making the soap to check out some things online.

But of course, I can't post what I want to post. Many times I type it out and then delete it as I don't want to be mean (or seem to be mean!).

But next time you read a post like the ones described above, know that somewhere in the Austrian mountains there is a poor laptop being shaken and shouted at...........................:shifty:

 

[Miha Engblom]

Some peoples should indeed do some more research before start soaping.... I know somebody that has been showering with soap that only reached trace thinking the soap was ready to use...
I really love watching soap making videos and especially soaping101, I think that she (whoever is making the videos from soap101) is the BEST!

 

[Ruthie]

Yes, you do always seem the Gentleman from this side of your laptop. Now We know you are human like the rest of us. I sometimes find it to be difficult to be straightforward without being mean. Sometimes it is even worse after dealing with 4 year olds- and their parents- all day long. ("No, sharing does NOT mean he has to give you that block just because you want it. Sharing means you ask him to give it to you when he finishes with it.")

I often leave questions for others to answer because I am sure I would be ugly if I replied. Or because just a simple search would have answered the question.

 

[Ruthie]

Some peoples should indeed do some more research before start soaping.... I know somebody that has been showering with soap that only reached trace thinking the soap was ready to use...
I really love watching soap making videos and especially soaping101, I think that she (whoever is making the videos from soap101) is the BEST!

OH MY! I hope their skin did not fall off! )

 

[Derpina Bubbles]

I get what you mean. Some people will never read the instructions 1st. With soap that just happens to be a really bad idea. Some people like to learn as they go, flying by the seat of their pants. A lot of the time those pants have holes in them and we are exposed to things that make us shake. In a bad way.

Type...delete...type delete...nah never. Don't know what you're talking about.

 

[DeeAnna]

I know I am really long winded when answering some questions. They're questions that intrigue me or questions that I think deserve a proper answer. If you see me give a one-liner or links to resources already on SMF, it's a pretty sure sign that somewhere in the upper Midwest of the United States, there is yet another computer being shaken and yelled at.

 

[PinkCupcake]

I can't tell you how often I type a post, then delete it. I do it here, and I do it several times a day on FB. I have a wide variety of interesting FB friends, and when you add in their friends and my strong beliefs, it's really hard for me to keep my mouth shut! It's a little easier here, because I know that someone else will say something, and will phrase it better than I could.

 

[judymoody]

I definitely understand where you are coming from. Sometimes when I answer the same question for the tenth time, my patience can wear a little thin.

When this happens, however, I try to remember that there IS a lot of misinformation out there and not all of it is on the internet. Sure, you can google handmade soapmaking and come up with bad information (although more often than not you'll stumble upon Kathy Miller's excellent site). But there ARE published books out there with lye-heavy recipes. Why would the average person doubt a book between covers and think to search out a lye calculator? Or if they take a course, why would they doubt what their teacher says - why would they suspect that person hasn't got a clue?

I will always remember chatting with a soapmaker at a craft fair, liking the packaging and fragrance of her soaps, and buying a bar. I then asked her what her superfat level was and she DIDN'T UNDERSTAND THE QUESTION. She said that her recipe "came from a book" and she's always used it. Oops. The soap developed an awful sour milk smell and I ended up throwing it away. It was definitely an eye opener.

 

[paillo]

I, too, have to sit on my hands, or at least type a message and delete it, to keep from responding to questions that even a tiny bit of research would have answered for the OP. I always, always research to get answers to my own questions - and more often than not it leads me here If I can't find a satisfactory answer, of course I ask here, so many experts and so many with amazing insights I never would have thought of.

But like most of us mods/admins, it is wearing to see the things The Gent has mentioned - for me, the one that bugs me most is folks wanting to sell soap after having made one or a few batches and not understanding the slightest thing about testing, curing, rancidity, allergies, etc. etc. that only experience can teach. To these posts I have seen, over and over, helpful, thoughtful and gentle suggestions from the forum, only to have the OP take it personally and complain that we are 'mean'. I have to admit my patience wears thin and I can be sharp and impatient. It is not meant to be mean, but to try to avert a bad rap for soapers and problems for the customers.

Thanks for bringing this up, Gent, nice to be able to vent a little And I do have to say, just yesterday was thinking that the present group participating in the forum is of really, really high quality, quite honestly my favorite since I joined the forum almost four years ago. Love the humor, the insights, the scientific explanations, the sense of camaraderie.

 

[clhigh29]

I feel a bit defensive here, because I did ask a question that I wish I hadn't. If I didn't post a pic of a loaf I made, I would never have known about overheating. I'm a newbie, a mother, work full time and soap when I can. I use The Everything Soapmaking Book as a reference (which doesn't cover overheating) There's not enough time in the day to watch videos on everything, though I do really like soap101 when I can find the time. I can pretty much figure out if I forgot an oil or the fragrance oil screwed up the color of my soap, but I did appreciate learning from you all about overheating, which I wouldn't know how I'd Google since I didn't know it could happen. I think I never experienced it because I previously used a 97% lye and recently started using 100%. I'll try my hardest to not ask a stupid questions.

 

[The Efficacious Gentleman]

It might just be that I am the type of person who learns a lot about a subject before diving in, then expect others to do the same. Not saying it's the best way, though.

As Judy pointed out, there is a lot of bad information out there. In fact, there are times that some creeps in here (vinegar on a lye-spill on the skin, CP superfatting at trace are two examples) but unlike a book, course of a 'flat' page of information online, there are then further comments for and against certain things that open it up to help the poster.

To anyone reading this who then might think twice about posting - please do post! This isn't about what some might think of as a silly question - it's more about silly situations, if that makes sense.

 

[paillo]

Hey Cheryl H., you didn't ask a clueless question at all! Sometimes you just don't know what you don't know, and your question was a good new soaper's question. That's the kind of question, and answers, that can be really helpful to a good many new soapers. Just me, but you didn't hit any of my buttons that would cause me to foam at the mouth

 

[Obsidian]

I feel a bit defensive here, because I did ask a question that I wish I hadn't. If I didn't post a pic of a loaf I made, I would never have known about overheating. I'm a newbie, a mother, work full time and soap when I can. I use The Everything Soapmaking Book as a reference (which doesn't cover overheating) There's not enough time in the day to watch videos on everything, though I do really like soap101 when I can find the time. I can pretty much figure out if I forgot an oil or the fragrance oil screwed up the color of my soap, but I did appreciate learning from you all about overheating, which I wouldn't know how I'd Google since I didn't know it could happen. I think I never experienced it because I previously used a 97% lye and recently started using 100%. I'll try my hardest to not ask a stupid questions.

Ask all the questions you want, even if they seem silly. That is what a forum is for. Asking what happened to your cracked loaf wasn't stupid, I asked the same thing just a few months back.

I personally don't have any issues with newbie questions. We were all there at one time or another. I think people forgot what its like to be new and excited to start a hobby that on the outside, should be really simple but isn't.
I too had a book that ended up being a terrible book and I didn't understand why I was "attacked" when I first joined here. Now I know, if I would have followed the book, I would have had awful soap that could have possibly been unsafe.
I had no idea lye calculators existed so how could I have ran recipes through one?

I also type out responses at time just to delete it, its usually to people who want to argue or who are ignoring good advice because its not what they wanted to hear.
I've been temporarily banned from forums before for speaking my mind in not such a nice way. Beginner questions are ok, completely idiotic argumentative know it all's aren't.

 

[jenneelk]

Yes I agree! I recently responded to someone's problem and quickly have her her error, hopefully nicely. Just knew what she was doing wasn't ok at all but tried to respond as nicely as possible. Berating her won't help since she genuinely didn't mean harm. Kwim?
So I typed, erased, and retyped and reread. Making sure the point was across but nicely. Cause really MY getting upset or frustrated won't do anything but make my heart worse over someone else's soaping.

Now those who just like to argue you can tell.. And I avoid. Won't post knowing someone else will. Again I don't have the heart for drama.

 

[The Efficacious Gentleman]

Just to reiterate, I'm not talking so much about the "I've made this soap from a recipe and it's has this issue" type posts, although a little further reading is never a bad thing and clearly the forum can be found when something is wrong mid-process, but not 5 minutes before they start? Really?

More about the "I have no idea what soap making is but I am selling soap" or "the soap I'm selling is okay, but can you make it better for me to sell because I don't know what I'm doing"

 

[new12soap]

I also type out responses at time just to delete it, its usually to people who want to argue or who are ignoring good advice because its not what they wanted to hear... Beginner questions are ok, completely idiotic argumentative know it all's aren't.

This.

Personally I am fine with questions, don't care how stupid they may sound, if you don't know it then ask!

My personal pet peeves are:

People that ask questions then argue with the answers

People that have very little experience that are everywhere on every thread with something to say about everything because they have read this, that, or the other thing and consider themselves experts despite the fact that they have only made a handful of batches.

But the biggest problem is with people that continually try to force bad information on others. Whether they read it in a book, learned it from someone else, or read it on the internet, they are convinced and there is no need to try to give them the facts.

The point of forums like these is to share enthusiasm for a common interest and to provide information. It's important to get it right, and be open to accurate and reliable data.

 

[roseb]

I was one of those "less than informed" people when I started posting. I had made a couple of batches which turned out to be lye heavy. However, I had no idea. I did feel offended by one of the relies. But it made me stop and think that maybe the books and videos I had watched were not the best, and this isn't a hobby you can pick up like all my others.

I didn't post for a while, but just lurked and learned. And boy did I learn! I've lost track of the number of loafs I've made. I have a binder full of recipes and notes. I have spend a small fortune and have enough soap to last me a few years. But all that practice has been invaluable! Many newbies, like myself, don't understand the commitment and money it takes to get it right. So okay, we might offense some now and then. However, if you are planning on selling you need to develop good recipes and thick skin.

Like Obsidian said it's not the newbie questions that get me. It's the argumentative types that do. She is right, some just don't like what you have to say. We all have to start somewhere and I would rather them start here and get the best possible answers to their questions.

 

[clhigh29]

I'm not a "fly by the seat of my pants" type at all, but LOL ...if I tried to learn as much as possible before diving into something, I might not have kids today . I do try to learn the important things and discipline myself. Again, I do appreciate all I learn from you guys and the inspiration you bring.

 

[AnnaO]

Hello, as a newbie, I thought I would chip in.

I stumbled across soapmaking as recently as last December via a not-related-to-soapmaking-at-all youtube link to someone's el cheapo 'Smashwords' book on the topic. I was curious, so I purchased the book, which if I recall correctly cost 79p.

Then when I read that book, oh my, what a disappointment.

It was largely a collection of sundry recipes, swept up from dank corners of the internet, with little explanation as to proper procedure. The lye quantities were given in grams and ounces in some recipes, which made sense, while in other recipes, in teaspoons, tablespoons, and cups, which even in my relative naivete I found alarming. Then at the end of the book the author, who incidentally is English and living in England, declares soap making to be a fine and potentially profitable business idea. He clearly is unaware of the EU regulations then, as no mention is made of them.

So yes there is disinformation out there, provided by people who have really not done their homework. But by then my interest in soap making had been ignited, there was no going back, and on searching openlibrary.org I found another, better book:

https://openlibrary.org/books/ia:Th...omplete_Idiot's_Guide_to_Making_Natural_Soaps

Mind you I had to read that book four times before it began making proper sense, I discovered some typos in some of the recipe weights, and since then have found more otherwise highly-rated books also occasionally fall short in this respect.

Even after reading the spots off that book I had so many questions, and so many times my web searches directed me to this forum for answers that I quickly joined this forum, so I could use the search function here.

Yay! The search function!! THANK YOU THANK YOU THANK YOU!!!!!

And also like roseb and I daresay the vast majority of folk here, I have learned so very much by just reading new posts and lurking.

Anna x

 

[Seawolfe]

As a newbie I've had some gentle bumps, like links to what I should have searched before I asked. Thats fine, that is how the more experienced teach the littles. I probably chime in on too many conversations as well, but its all so fascinating at this stage!

I do find it alarming the number of people who think about selling something they don't know very much about - the risk of actual harm is a far greater potential for soap and bath & beauty products. Its not like selling crocheted do-dads on Etsy or things in a virtual world. And I find it a little disconcerting about people wanting to comodotize their hobby way to soon, but perhaps thats a remnant of the economic downturn, or all of the "sell your soap NOW" advertisements about.